Modern day Israel

[silentreader]

I also find it interesting that Eastern is so militantly premillenial, but other ultras such as Ohio Wislers and Washington County are not - although I guess the two latter groups are really "half-old order."

Different streams, I think. The corresponding Canadian groups also differ on this.

[Valerie]

Thank you I know that there's so much going on there that I wasn't sure if the Anabaptists are moving towards we're so many evangelicals have embraced what's happening in Israel as being prophecy fulfilled.

I know of one Church in Holmes County "area" that recently renovated the outside of their Church to give it a look like it belonged in Israel I believe is what the goal was. I really like the preaching in that church as we have visited a handful of times, I know GC Donner was close with the main pastor there, I'm just not sure if they would be considered an Anabaptist Church that has embraced modern day Israel as a fulfillment of prophecy

Ah, my friend Wayne Weaver?
While I am not with the Anabaptist movement anymore, much of my theology is still in agreement, except the one of national Israel being a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. According to Paul, there is only one way to be part of the people of God and that is to be "in Christ". They were cut off, but can be grafted back in, but only the same way that we were grafted in, through faith in Christ. As long as that country remains primarily atheistic, and rejecting of Jesus Christ (it is unlawful to evangelize there), they are outside of God's providence.

Speaking as an Anabaptist who used to live in the same area as Wayne Weaver, I can attest that most Anabaptists don't really consider Oasis Tabernacle to be "Anabaptist" but rather consider it to be a fringe movement. (Some of my information comes from my barber, whose son married a girl from those circles, and they now both attend there.) From what I understand, they are not conservative Anabaptist anymore, particularly in areas of abandoning nonresistance; abandoning the Christian woman's headcovering; and adopting the practicing of full-immersion baptism.

It is, however, a church that is essentially composed of entirely Swiss-background ethnic Anabaptist people.

The women do cover their heads, but they are not matchie matchie (we have visited s few times). What do you know about them leaving non-resistance, i haven't picked up on that.
We watch their sermons on YouTube occasionally. Just not sure where they fit in this topic, their belief.

[Josh]

Ah, my friend Wayne Weaver?
While I am not with the Anabaptist movement anymore, much of my theology is still in agreement, except the one of national Israel being a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. According to Paul, there is only one way to be part of the people of God and that is to be "in Christ". They were cut off, but can be grafted back in, but only the same way that we were grafted in, through faith in Christ. As long as that country remains primarily atheistic, and rejecting of Jesus Christ (it is unlawful to evangelize there), they are outside of God's providence.

Speaking as an Anabaptist who used to live in the same area as Wayne Weaver, I can attest that most Anabaptists don't really consider Oasis Tabernacle to be "Anabaptist" but rather consider it to be a fringe movement. (Some of my information comes from my barber, whose son married a girl from those circles, and they now both attend there.) From what I understand, they are not conservative Anabaptist anymore, particularly in areas of abandoning nonresistance; abandoning the Christian woman's headcovering; and adopting the practicing of full-immersion baptism.

It is, however, a church that is essentially composed of entirely Swiss-background ethnic Anabaptist people.

The women do cover their heads, but they are not matchie matchie (we have visited s few times). What do you know about them leaving non-resistance, i haven't picked up on that.
We watch their sermons on YouTube occasionally. Just not sure where they fit in this topic, their belief.

A quick check of a recent video of their service shows head coverings are quite optional.

[Valerie]

Speaking as an Anabaptist who used to live in the same area as Wayne Weaver, I can attest that most Anabaptists don't really consider Oasis Tabernacle to be "Anabaptist" but rather consider it to be a fringe movement. (Some of my information comes from my barber, whose son married a girl from those circles, and they now both attend there.) From what I understand, they are not conservative Anabaptist anymore, particularly in areas of abandoning nonresistance; abandoning the Christian woman's headcovering; and adopting the practicing of full-immersion baptism.

It is, however, a church that is essentially composed of entirely Swiss-background ethnic Anabaptist people.

The women do cover their heads, but they are not matchie matchie (we have visited s few times). What do you know about them leaving non-resistance, i haven't picked up on that.
We watch their sermons on YouTube occasionally. Just not sure where they fit in this topic, their belief.

A quick check of a recent video of their service shows head coverings are quite optional.

Having actually attended church there, almost every woman I saw covered her head- granted some still used more of the doily type of the Mennonites, - so my observation led me to realize there are probably visiting women there like we were and I imagine they don't meet every visitor at the door and tell the woman to put a covering on- in fact when we were first seeking Anabaptism 13 years ago and I had met a couple former Amish who was then Charity, I hadn't yet started to cover my head. They invited us to their church, a branch of Charity in ohio. I asked them if I was supposed to put a covering on since I didn't own anything yet. Their reply to me was not until I had the understanding was it necessary, so I can understand why you might see women in Oasis Tabernacle that have not yet started to cover because they could be either visitors or they are giving them the time to have the understanding and not men dating it as soon as someone walks through their doors.

[gcdonner]

Speaking as an Anabaptist who used to live in the same area as Wayne Weaver, I can attest that most Anabaptists don't really consider Oasis Tabernacle to be "Anabaptist" but rather consider it to be a fringe movement. (Some of my information comes from my barber, whose son married a girl from those circles, and they now both attend there.) From what I understand, they are not conservative Anabaptist anymore, particularly in areas of abandoning nonresistance; abandoning the Christian woman's headcovering; and adopting the practicing of full-immersion baptism.

It is, however, a church that is essentially composed of entirely Swiss-background ethnic Anabaptist people.

The women do cover their heads, but they are not matchie matchie (we have visited s few times). What do you know about them leaving non-resistance, i haven't picked up on that.
We watch their sermons on YouTube occasionally. Just not sure where they fit in this topic, their belief.

A quick check of a recent video of their service shows head coverings are quite optional.

The drifting away from the head covering and other things Anabaptist happened after we left that group and was heavily influenced by Zack Punan, an evangelist from India. I see that they are building a new sanctuary that gives the look of the temple in Jerusalem would have looked.
Wayne did have a good teaching on the tabernacle that was often taught back in the day. I never imagined that they would have gone this direction. The other two "apostles" left the movement for various reasons over the years, unfortunately, one was as the result of infidelity.

[gcdonner]

[/quote]Valerie
Having actually attended church there, almost every woman I saw covered her head- granted some still used more of the doily type of the Mennonites, - so my observation led me to realize there are probably visiting women there like we were and I imagine they don't meet every visitor at the door and tell the woman to put a covering on- in fact when we were first seeking Anabaptism 13 years ago and I had met a couple former Amish who was then Charity, I hadn't yet started to cover my head. They invited us to their church, a branch of Charity in ohio. I asked them if I was supposed to put a covering on since I didn't own anything yet. Their reply to me was not until I had the understanding was it necessary, so I can understand why you might see women in Oasis Tabernacle that have not yet started to cover because they could be either visitors or they are giving them the time to have the understanding and not men dating it as soon as someone walks through their doors.
[/quote]
As I understand it, the woman's head covering is only understood to be for church services and may even be optional now. Again, the results of the teachings of Zack P.

[Valerie]

Valerie
Having actually attended church there, almost every woman I saw covered her head- granted some still used more of the doily type of the Mennonites, - so my observation led me to realize there are probably visiting women there like we were and I imagine they don't meet every visitor at the door and tell the woman to put a covering on- in fact when we were first seeking Anabaptism 13 years ago and I had met a couple former Amish who was then Charity, I hadn't yet started to cover my head. They invited us to their church, a branch of Charity in ohio. I asked them if I was supposed to put a covering on since I didn't own anything yet. Their reply to me was not until I had the understanding was it necessary, so I can understand why you might see women in Oasis Tabernacle that have not yet started to cover because they could be either visitors or they are giving them the time to have the understanding and not men dating it as soon as someone walks through their doors.
[/quote]
As I understand it, the woman's head covering is only understood to be for church services and may even be optional now. Again, the results of the teachings of Zack P.
[/quote]

The Eastern Orthodox that do cover, only require in the service- praying ( however I have not heard prophesying done in Eastern Orthodox service).

I've never actually heard the teaching from Wayne Weaver regarding head covering to know exactly what his position is, I just know that if they have visitors or people that don't have the understanding yet they wouldn't really realize yet

[Neto]

Valerie
Having actually attended church there, almost every woman I saw covered her head- granted some still used more of the doily type of the Mennonites, - so my observation led me to realize there are probably visiting women there like we were and I imagine they don't meet every visitor at the door and tell the woman to put a covering on- in fact when we were first seeking Anabaptism 13 years ago and I had met a couple former Amish who was then Charity, I hadn't yet started to cover my head. They invited us to their church, a branch of Charity in ohio. I asked them if I was supposed to put a covering on since I didn't own anything yet. Their reply to me was not until I had the understanding was it necessary, so I can understand why you might see women in Oasis Tabernacle that have not yet started to cover because they could be either visitors or they are giving them the time to have the understanding and not men dating it as soon as someone walks through their doors.

As I understand it, the woman's head covering is only understood to be for church services and may even be optional now. Again, the results of the teachings of Zack P.
[/quote]

The Eastern Orthodox that do cover, only require in the service- praying ( however I have not heard prophesying done in Eastern Orthodox service).

I've never actually heard the teaching from Wayne Weaver regarding head covering to know exactly what his position is, I just know that if they have visitors or people that don't have the understanding yet they wouldn't really realize yet
[/quote]

I realize that this is off-topic, and I have already said this before, so bear with me. I do not think that there is actually Scriptural support for saying that the veiling needs to be worn outside of worship services, or special times of fellowship & prayer. I think that part of the reason the covering that is used is so small is because of this - safety concerns, the need to be aware of what is going on behind you, etc. It's OK to wear it beyond the prescribed parameters - it's somewhat like non-plain Christians who wear clothing with Christian messages printed on it, or like the fish I wore in HS. (Except that didn't work as expected - the other kids thought I was a "Pisces", so I stopped wearing it, and just carried a Good News for Modern Man with me to all classes, and tried to always to be ready to talk about Jesus with anyone who would listen.)

[gcdonner]

I realize that this is off-topic, and I have already said this before, so bear with me. I do not think that there is actually Scriptural support for saying that the veiling needs to be worn outside of worship services, or special times of fellowship & prayer. I think that part of the reason the covering that is used is so small is because of this - safety concerns, the need to be aware of what is going on behind you, etc. It's OK to wear it beyond the prescribed parameters - it's somewhat like non-plain Christians who wear clothing with Christian messages printed on it, or like the fish I wore in HS. (Except that didn't work as expected - the other kids thought I was a "Pisces", so I stopped wearing it, and just carried a Good News for Modern Man with me to all classes, and tried to always to be ready to talk about Jesus with anyone who would listen.)

The woman's head covering is not about praying or prophesying, but about headship order, which is always in effect. If you dismiss the first verse of the passage (which is the 3rd verse of the chapter), then you miss the whole intent of Paul's teaching. To take it back to the topic at hand, it's like missing Romans 9:6 before attempting to interpret Roms 11:26 and assuming it means ethnic "Israel".

Rom 11:2  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew...

"All Israel" never was the ethnic group, but always the believers and so it is today. There is only ONE avenue into God's grace and that according to the Son of God is:

Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 

[Heirbyadoption]

The woman's head covering is not about praying or prophesying, but about headship order, which is always in effect. If you dismiss the first verse of the passage (which is the 3rd verse of the chapter), then you miss the whole intent of Paul's teaching. To take it back to the topic at hand, it's like missing Romans 9:6 before attempting to interpret Roms 11:26 and assuming it means ethnic "Israel".

Now that there is downright quotable, George.

(even if I don't share your eschatological views... )