Alistair Begg: You should go to a transsexual wedding

[Josh]

I would prefer to go and visit the grandson and whomever this new person is or perhaps invite them over to my house for a meal, and treat them like tax gatherers and sinners - like Jesus did. Often such people have a deep spiritual need and they will respect a person who treats them like humans yet also doesn’t condone what is obviously sinful.

[HondurasKeiser]

Valerie, your thoughts on your pastor's stand in this area ?

I have to say that caught both my husband and & I off guard- I asked my husband before listening what he thought Pastor Begg would advise - and he believed that Pastor Begg would advise "not" to go. I mean, as the interviewer pointed out, Pastor Begg just took us through Romans 1, Psalm 139 & Jude late Summer I think it was. So we knew he was stressing the firm Biblical position on homosexuality as sin. We felt glad he was again making his position unwavering regardless of culture.

So that surprised us. I have been asked the same question & advised not to attend- to "me" attending means affirming. To Pastor Begg, he stressed making sure the grandson knew his Grandmother was clear in .NOT affirming so in his view, attending didn't mean affirming.

My conviction would be not to go. It may be Sudsy he sees it like you have example of Jesus attending a wedding and people already having had much to drink but then obeying His mother by providing more wine.

I'd still have to say, I know HOW Hard these decisions are for people, In my own heart, I'd have to disagree with his counsel- His feeling was by doing that we are seen as those self righteous judgemental Christians. I think there is a way to lovingly not attend. I imagine many in our congregation that ",know him" may be surprised,-

Thanks Valerie. When it comes to 'hanging out with sinners', Jesus was often accused by the Pharisees for His 'hanging out with sinners' as they thought this was sinful behaviour. And when He asked Zacchaeus, a sinner in everyone's mind, if He could go to his house, the crowd also thought it was the wrong thing to do. It is interesting to me how often Jesus went against the practises of the religious expectations in His day. When Zacchaeus repented and was saved, Jesus said that He has come 'to seek and to save that which was lost'. Jesus would not let people's religious expectations of Him stop Him from doing His Father's will.

So this makes me question if we are really following Jesus example when we withdraw ourselves from reaching out to sinners or are we being more like the Pharisees and concerned more about our own views and reputation of being sanctified. Did Jesus allow the views of sanctification held by others get in His way of reaching the lost ? It appears to me, He did not. One of the big issues amongst the religious people in that day was Jesus wanting to 'hang out' with sinners. I think the 'come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord' has been mis-understood by many as it does not reflect how Jesus lived nor what He said we should do to bring people to salvation. Jesus showed by example that we can be very engaged with sinners and yet not be sinning, regardless of what other religious people are thinking.

Any 'push back' on this ?

I'll try. Not to be crass but pushing a little on the "hang out with sinners" idea. Would you hang out at a strip club?

[Josh]

A friend of mine’s mom’s friend used to do just that. She got to know some of the dancers and their family/personal problems.

More interestingly, she ran into area pastors coming into the strip clubs from time to time… and NOT for evangelistic purposes…

[Sudsy]

I have to say that caught both my husband and & I off guard- I asked my husband before listening what he thought Pastor Begg would advise - and he believed that Pastor Begg would advise "not" to go. I mean, as the interviewer pointed out, Pastor Begg just took us through Romans 1, Psalm 139 & Jude late Summer I think it was. So we knew he was stressing the firm Biblical position on homosexuality as sin. We felt glad he was again making his position unwavering regardless of culture.

So that surprised us. I have been asked the same question & advised not to attend- to "me" attending means affirming. To Pastor Begg, he stressed making sure the grandson knew his Grandmother was clear in .NOT affirming so in his view, attending didn't mean affirming.

My conviction would be not to go. It may be Sudsy he sees it like you have example of Jesus attending a wedding and people already having had much to drink but then obeying His mother by providing more wine.

I'd still have to say, I know HOW Hard these decisions are for people, In my own heart, I'd have to disagree with his counsel- His feeling was by doing that we are seen as those self righteous judgemental Christians. I think there is a way to lovingly not attend. I imagine many in our congregation that ",know him" may be surprised,-

Thanks Valerie. When it comes to 'hanging out with sinners', Jesus was often accused by the Pharisees for His 'hanging out with sinners' as they thought this was sinful behaviour. And when He asked Zacchaeus, a sinner in everyone's mind, if He could go to his house, the crowd also thought it was the wrong thing to do. It is interesting to me how often Jesus went against the practises of the religious expectations in His day. When Zacchaeus repented and was saved, Jesus said that He has come 'to seek and to save that which was lost'. Jesus would not let people's religious expectations of Him stop Him from doing His Father's will.

So this makes me question if we are really following Jesus example when we withdraw ourselves from reaching out to sinners or are we being more like the Pharisees and concerned more about our own views and reputation of being sanctified. Did Jesus allow the views of sanctification held by others get in His way of reaching the lost ? It appears to me, He did not. One of the big issues amongst the religious people in that day was Jesus wanting to 'hang out' with sinners. I think the 'come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord' has been mis-understood by many as it does not reflect how Jesus lived nor what He said we should do to bring people to salvation. Jesus showed by example that we can be very engaged with sinners and yet not be sinning, regardless of what other religious people are thinking.

Any 'push back' on this ?

I'll try. Not to be crass but pushing a little on the "hang out with sinners" idea. Would you hang out at a strip club?

If I believed that God was calling me to be a witness to someone wherever, I should be willing to go. The key, to me, is whether or not we are being lead of the Spirit in where we should go. One thing I appreciated in the Salvation Army was the officers would go into the pubs and give out their magazines and sit and talk with people. People would get to know them as a friend and would listen to the Gospel that they shared. Often people would share their struggles in life and open doors to hear the Gospel.

Since I am familiar with what all goes on at a strip club from my back sliding period, I doubt God would call me to go there and be a witness but should He, then it is up to me to obey.

[RZehr]

You’re going to a wedding, but you’re not going to celebrate the sin at the center and reason for the celebration?

If you’ve effectively communicated that homosexual and transsexual weddings are sin, how are you getting invited to one? If you don’t have the courage to say it is sin, you won’t have the courage or conviction to witness there either.

Think. What are the straight people doing at a pride parade? They are showing their support and solidarity and celebrating with the LGBTQ people. By being there. Same goes for 4th of July parades. Parades are celebrating things and people go to them to support and celebrate.

Is going to these things sin? How is it not legalism to try to find the line exactly where sin begins? Instead of just saying that is not where my spirit and values and heart is, and I have no interest in celebrating such things.

It’s interesting how liberals who insist on getting as close to the “sin line” as possible, aren’t legalists.

[Sudsy]

I would prefer to go and visit the grandson and whomever this new person is or perhaps invite them over to my house for a meal, and treat them like tax gatherers and sinners - like Jesus did. Often such people have a deep spiritual need and they will respect a person who treats them like humans yet also doesn’t condone what is obviously sinful.

But you are suggesting that attending the wedding is condoning what is obviously sinful and Alistair said that the couple should know that you believe God regards it as sinful. It is the other guests, it seems to me, that one doesn't want them to think you are condoning the wedding by attending. I wonder what the situation was when Jesus was at the marriage when He made all the wine. Where they believers ? Where they married before ? Perhaps they were atheists or followers of another religion. Jesus did not appear to be concerned about wrong judgments that could be made by His attending and wine making.

I believe we are to have an answer for why we do things but not try to avoid any wrong judgments made by others that won't directly question us. Jesus had answers when He was questioned. They certainly didn't like His answers often but He was ready to give them.

[RZehr]

I would prefer to go and visit the grandson and whomever this new person is or perhaps invite them over to my house for a meal, and treat them like tax gatherers and sinners - like Jesus did. Often such people have a deep spiritual need and they will respect a person who treats them like humans yet also doesn’t condone what is obviously sinful.

But you are suggesting that attending the wedding is condoning what is obviously sinful and Alistair said that the couple should know that you believe God regards it as sinful. It is the other guests, it seems to me, that one doesn't want them to think you are condoning the wedding by attending. I wonder what the situation was when Jesus was at the marriage when He made all the wine. Where they believers ? Where they married before ? Perhaps they were atheists or followers of another religion. Jesus did not appear to be concerned about wrong judgments that could be made by His attending and wine making.

I believe we are to have an answer for why we do things but not try to avoid any wrong judgments made by others that won't directly question us. Jesus had answers when He was questioned. They certainly didn't like His answers often but He was ready to give them.

I think it is safe to say that when we remember the Jewish Old Testament laws and customs of the day, that Jesus probably wasn’t attending a transgender wedding.

[Josh]

There is no reason to believe the wedding at Cana was sinful at all.

[Sudsy]

You’re going to a wedding, but you’re not going to celebrate the sin at the center and reason for the celebration?

Yes, imo, I can attend a wedding and not celebrate the sin involved. Just like I can attend a believer marrying a non-believer which also is considered sin. This does not mean I am celebrating their joining together regardless of what some may perceive it to be. Was Jesus encouraging getting drunk by creating so much wine at the wedding we read about ? Some could read into it as such.

If you’ve effectively communicated that homosexual and transsexual weddings are sin, how are you getting invited to one? If you don’t have the courage to say it is sin, you won’t have the courage or conviction to witness there either.

I have been in my own family. A couple may invite you, knowing your beliefs, but aside from how you believe they still desire to have you present.

Think. What are the straight people doing at a pride parade? They are showing their support and solidarity and celebrating with the LGBTQ people. By being there. Same goes for 4th of July parades. Parades are celebrating things and people go to them to support and celebrate.

The question then is, in my mind, can I not be supportive and celebrating a marriage by attending regardless of what others think. And I believe I could attend for my own reasons. I might attend a gay parade also even though I would not support one. I have other reasons to be there.

Is going to these things sin? How is it not legalism to try to find the line exactly where sin begins? Instead of just saying that is not where my spirit and values and heart is, and I have no interest in celebrating such things.

It would be sin if I'm condoning what others are celebrating. I may not enjoy such a setting but am willing to endure it if it opens the door to future discussions with the couple about eternity .

It’s interesting how liberals who insist on getting as close to the “sin line” as possible, aren’t legalists.

Was Jesus what one would call a 'liberal' or a 'legalist' ? I think not. Was He not living "close to the "sin line" or even stepping over that line as far as the Pharisees were concerned ? I think so yet He never sinned.

[Sudsy]

I would prefer to go and visit the grandson and whomever this new person is or perhaps invite them over to my house for a meal, and treat them like tax gatherers and sinners - like Jesus did. Often such people have a deep spiritual need and they will respect a person who treats them like humans yet also doesn’t condone what is obviously sinful.

But you are suggesting that attending the wedding is condoning what is obviously sinful and Alistair said that the couple should know that you believe God regards it as sinful. It is the other guests, it seems to me, that one doesn't want them to think you are condoning the wedding by attending. I wonder what the situation was when Jesus was at the marriage when He made all the wine. Where they believers ? Where they married before ? Perhaps they were atheists or followers of another religion. Jesus did not appear to be concerned about wrong judgments that could be made by His attending and wine making.

I believe we are to have an answer for why we do things but not try to avoid any wrong judgments made by others that won't directly question us. Jesus had answers when He was questioned. They certainly didn't like His answers often but He was ready to give them.

I think it is safe to say that when we remember the Jewish Old Testament laws and customs of the day, that Jesus probably wasn’t attending a transgender wedding.

Is it possible He was attending the wedding of two sinners ? I would think that is also safe to say.