Modern day Israel

[ken_sylvania]

When did this trend start? Is this a legacy from trends that hit the Lancaster Conference in the 1980s?

I feel like it goes back to the Brunk influence around Pre-millenialism and the creation of the modern Israeli state in 46.

Oh. That would be a much older influence. I've always wondered why Easterns were so militantly pre-mil, when it's not a historic Anabaptist position at all.

A. M. Shank provided a heavy pre-mill influence in the early EPMC years, along with some other influential persons.

[ohio jones]

Speaking as an Anabaptist who used to live in the same area as Wayne Weaver, I can attest that most Anabaptists don't really consider Oasis Tabernacle to be "Anabaptist" but rather consider it to be a fringe movement.

Not sure they are wearing tzitzit yet, but along with other churches in their network they seem to employ various Jewish accoutrements in their facilities and practices.

Including attempting to haul marble and granite directly back from Israel for the cornerstone on their new building and smuggling out vials of water from the Jordan River. (It would seem the latter would be more amenable to affusion, but they are dedicated immersionists.)

Back when I did The Tour, many years ago before dihydrous monoxide was considered contraband on aeroplanes, one of the guys (don't quite recall if he was Allegheny Conf. or LMC at the time) had a container of at least 2 liters that he brought back from the Jordan for baptismal purposes. We figured it would be at least a 5 year supply if he didn't get them too wet. A few years later he went back with the group featured in MD's classic "Amish in Israel" thread. Must have been time to restock.

If Oasis is using immersion, they must be watering down those vials.

[Josh]

To be fair, the vials of water thing I have only heard as second-hand rumours. The granite slabs for the cornerstone, though, is 100% not-fake-news verified fact.

[ohio jones]

So they are using genuine imported stone for the cornerstone, and (best I can tell from the photos on their web site, though the sequence of application looks really strange) either thin stone veneer or EIFS for rest of the stone-look facade. Odd, but perhaps very fitting.

[Neto]

The circles I run in are very strongly zionistic for the most part. And premill...rapture etc.

Interesting. Where do they place the tribulation in relation to the "catching up"? (Ie, are the pre-trib?)

[Josh]

One of Pilgrim Conference's workbooks seems to teach a mid-tribulation rapture or post-tribulation, although I cannot entirely tell.

[joshuabgood]

The circles I run in are very strongly zionistic for the most part. And premill...rapture etc.

Interesting. Where do they place the tribulation in relation to the "catching up"? (Ie, are the pre-trib?)

Almost invariably pretrib.

[Josh]

The circles I run in are very strongly zionistic for the most part. And premill...rapture etc.

Interesting. Where do they place the tribulation in relation to the "catching up"? (Ie, are the pre-trib?)

Almost invariably pretrib.

Is Pilgrim? (The booklet above doesn’t seem to be teaching pretrib rapture. The author is Ebersole.)

[cmbl]

Interesting. Where do they place the tribulation in relation to the "catching up"? (Ie, are the pre-trib?)

Almost invariably pretrib.

Is Pilgrim? (The booklet above doesn’t seem to be teaching pretrib rapture. The author is Ebersole.)

Pilgrim would generally be the same as Eastern, though perhaps less militant. The booklet above seems to indicate "rapture" before "tribulation" in lesson 3.

In speaking with a minister friend of mine, he remarked that the militancy in Eastern seems to have declined with time, and that Pilgrim is less excited about dispensational premillenialism than Eastern. This minister friend is minded toward historic (pre-revivalist) Anabaptist and Mennonite doctrine so he and I both thought that reduced militancy about premillenialism was a good thing.

[cmbl]

I also find it interesting that Eastern is so militantly premillenial, but other ultras such as Ohio Wislers and Washington County are not - although I guess the two latter groups are really "half-old order."