Divorce & Remarriage

[mike]

It is a difficult life for her - sure. No doubt about that. And a lonely life, too. But this is where the church should step in to support her especially spiritually & emotionally, and that sometimes through financial support as well. (This would be the Dutch Mennonite view.)

Most certainly. If there is anyone interested in participating in financial support for this family, I would be happy to let you know how you can do that.

[Josh]

Ironically, it looks like most CAs seem to be allowing worldly government to decide what’s marriage.

If two heathen gentile getting legally bound together in a county clerks office is somehow a covenenatal bond at the throne of God, their perspective is quite detached, in my opinion.

A civil union is not the same thing as a Biblical marriage in which two become one.

Isn't that somewhat unfortunate for all the many children of unconverted couples, whose parents may become separated and remarried to other partners, and have subsequent families, then become converted and have those subsequent marriages blessed by the Christian church?

I don’t think the children care.

Of situations I know where children were involved and whose parents encountered a Plain church, they were extremely resentful for their parents getting a divorce. The child from the older marriage also didn’t care.

[RZehr]

I don't like how it has become accepted by society as a matter of fact, that people - with children - can divorce for virtually any reason, whether it be a lack of intimacy, financial, conflict, you name it, and society will not "judge" them, not for their actions nor for the childrens sake, but rather be understanding.

But woe to the married Christian living adulterously who through a seeking after God and truth comes to a place of conviction that they are living in sin! That person ought never divorce! All of a sudden it is about the children. All of a sudden it is about common sense. Etc.
The world despises the devout God fearing Christian.

[KingdomBuilder]

Every tradition has an area where senseless reason takes root. This seems to be it for most CAs.... we know it doesn’t have historicity on its side, either.

[Wade]

If two heathen gentile getting legally bound together in a county clerks office is somehow a covenenatal bond at the throne of God, their perspective is quite detached, in my opinion.

A civil union is not the same thing as a Biblical marriage in which two become one.

This is an interesting predicament... Where I live it is very common now for people to live common-law and never marry. So how do we approach this?
If a couple is married for 10 years and gets divorced and remarried to other people is it different than if those original two just never married?
Maybe we need to better define what marriage even is?

[GaryK]

Ironically, it looks like most CAs seem to be allowing worldly government to decide what’s marriage.

If two heathen gentile getting legally bound together in a county clerks office is somehow a covenenatal bond at the throne of God, their perspective is quite detached, in my opinion.

A civil union is not the same thing as a Biblical marriage in which two become one.

Isn't that somewhat unfortunate for all the many children of unconverted couples, whose parents may become separated and remarried to other partners, and have subsequent families, then become converted and have those subsequent marriages blessed by the Christian church?

I don’t think the children care.

Can you explain further? Divorce and remarriage is often quite traumatic for children. You seem to be dismissive of this reality.

Of situations I know where children were involved and whose parents encountered a Plain church, they were extremely resentful for their parents getting a divorce. The child from the older marriage also didn’t care.

Who told them to get a divorce? The Plain church?

[Joy]

Here is a non-hypothetical, real situation.

I know a man who committed a serious crime and received a 15-40 year prison sentence. His wife has five children aged about 10 and younger. Most people in this woman's life, including her parents, have advised her to divorce her husband and move forward with her life, including possible remarriage. It goes without saying that her life for the past several years as a veritable single mom, now having to work full-time to provide for her family, is extremely difficult. The prospect of spending much of her life in this circumstance is daunting beyond words.

Would those of you who oppose the conservative Anabaptist position on D&R advise her, as do most of her acquaintances in her evangelical Protestant church, to divorce her husband and marry another? Or would you support her in her desire to remain faithful to him?

That would depend on if he did something to break the marriage bond, like adultery, and the circumstances under which they were originally married, such as if she were a believer who understood marriage is to be for life.

Generally speaking, in our church, divorcing your spouse is strongly discouraged. It’s a different situation when someone’s spouse abandons them, is unfaithful, or goes and marries someone else and has children with that new spouse.

They were married as believers who understood marriage to be for life. As I described to Max, the husband's crime involved adultery, with a minor who had his child. He was jailed and sentenced, has repented but will spend much of the rest of his life in prison. The relationship of husband and wife is currently much better with him in prison than it was the last several years he was a free man. What would you advise for the wife in such a case?

Thankfully I'm not a marriage counselor. But I would advise her not to go against her conscience, as guided by Scripture. Definitely not to remarry. Mark 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

God will honor obedience, especially when it is difficult.

[temporal1]

Mike is doing a really good job of answering these questions and he is doing it in a kind way which I really appreciate.

He certainly does not need my help but when I have time I may have a few things to add.

agreed.
as i’ve been following along, i’ve been thankful mike is present, willing, and able to respond.
not something that can be taken for granted. he and others do not always have opportunity to participate “at will,” with demanding work, families, and other real life obligations.

this is a gift.

i certainly understand the shock, and even horror, that can be felt to those who have never considered these questions.

however. i also believe these very questions to CAs, with answers from CAs, may be among those of greatest importance for today’s world! (the world having gone a “complete 180” from God’s plan for marriage.)

thus, i also “certainly understand” CA reluctance to discontinue what has worked well for them,
as they view the chaos+misery D+R causes in the world.

in my view, it’s “ok” to be shocked, esp if it will shake up deep thinking about what is going on here. so much suffering results from D+R, much of it in simple ignorance of God’s will.
(this “pre-Christian” world.) https://www.crossway.org/articles/do-we ... n-society/

not all will agree. not all could comply. but, all can learn. there is so much to be learned/relearned.

i look forward to your input.

[Chris]

It’s not time and children that’s my complaint. It’s holding converts to suffer the errors of their pre-convert past.

It’s just dumb.

That's one of the kinder things that is said of the CA position actually. But I understand why you feel that way.

A lot depends on what one's view of marriage is, and whether one being a professing Christian affects whether a marriage is valid. One might also ask, to what extent must a person suffer from the errors of their pre-convert past? Can all past mistakes prior to conversion simply be ignored, with no more consequences?

SO this is my question. So obviously a marriage is a union before God and blessed by God. What if the "God" was pagan? Total unbelievers with completely different moral values. Then they find Jesus.

Did the unbeliever even understand marriage? Did the unbeliever understand the value of marriage for life? Was the unbeliever taught since childhood the value of marriage and the importance of it?

See this is where I'm having an issue. True that an unbeliever could suffer consequences of a past life, but I'm not speaking of health/legal issues. I'm speaking of spiritual.

As Mennonites, are we making the regenerated born again person "not so regenerated" and making the blood of Christ and his forgiveness of sins marginalized and boxed in?

When we take the example I gave in my original post, the couple was polytheistic. I'm dead serious too, many Hindus bless their marriage and home by allowing a cow to defecate in the living room! (not kidding) after the marriage. It's so far out there..... Shouldn't we just accept how the pagan/unbeliever comes?

In legal definition, it's called "ex post facto" law, which at least in America is legal. When we are reborn, we are then held to Christian standards right? It's like the government now writing a law and going back in time and prosecuting for it when it was never illegal. (ex post facto)

The regenerated person had "no idea" to the standard that marriage was and how seriously a Christian honors marriage. If the family came to Christ and lived for Christ, shouldn't we just give that couple to Christ and stay out of it?

[Josh]

Can you explain further? Divorce and remarriage is often quite traumatic for children. You seem to be dismissive of this reality.

Children of divorced and remarried parents don’t care what Plain people think. I know lots and lots of children whose parents are D&R. I can think of very few who care at all whether or not a Plain church condemns their remarriage.

Who told them to get a divorce? The Plain church?

Of course the Plain church did. One of the parents had a prior marriage decades ago.

The children (of the second, long lasting marriage) view their parents’ contact as being the reason their parents split up.

The child of the first marriage has been an adult for a long time and his parents have been D&R’d for a long time. He doesn’t care whether or not Plain people allow or don’t allow the remarriage.