Experts Confirm Genesis 19, Biblical City Destroyed by Explosion 1,000 Times Larger Than Atomic Bomb

[JohnHurt]

John why do you think that Jacob used dowsing?

How else? Trial and error? Keep digging 135' deep holes until you find something? No.

God showed Moses a tree that made the waters of Marah not bitter so the Israelites could drink. Exodus 15:23-25

Likewise, God showed Abraham and his children a way to find water in the desert. Could it be dowsing? I don't know but it makes sense. But it sure wasn't trial and error.

35 million Elvis fans cannot all be wrong. Likewise, a lot of people have used dowsing rods over the centuries and it has only remained a practice because it works. Dowsing works by "random chance" only when you pick "random people" that do not have this gift.

Dowsing cannot be scientifically evaluated because it is powered by the field that surrounds certain individuals, which "science" ignores because it cannot understand or measure this field.

Modern science tells us that being telepathic and reading someone's thoughts is impossible, yet the Bible says otherwise. Matt 12:25, Luke 6:8. Telepathy is a gift that is only given to certain people. Dowsing is also a gift that only certain people have.

The most ridiculous part of this discussion is that dowsing is somehow related to the Devil. Where is that in the Bible? Huh? Crickets.

Yet the Bible clearly states that the wicked do things "under every green tree". Jer 3:6. deut 12;2, 1 Kings 14:23, 2 Ki 16:4, 2 Ki 17:10, 2 Chron 28:4, Isaiah 57:5, and many other places. Yet these same people that say dowsing is "from the Devil" bring a green tree into their homes every year, deck it with silver and gold, and lay their presents before it, just like an idol. Jer 10:2-4

The people that say dowsing is from the devil are the same ones that worship the Birth of Christ on a day when Christ was not born, as the shepherds are not in the fields with their flocks on December 25th. Yet this very same day of Dec 25th is the birthday of Mithras, Horus/Osiris, Adonis, Dionysus, and every other "solar deity" worshiped by pagans to honor the "god of the sun" that has "come back from the dead" after the winter solstice. This ritual on Dec 25th is the way they worship the Birth of Christ - a ritual of blasphemy that mixes the holy with the profane and is obviously from the Devil.

I don't get it.

I think most of what "passes" for Christianity is really based on following the way of the heathen, which has been inspired by the Devil. Yet the people are not repentant, but are quite proud of how they have created and follow their own religion. And they get rid of the Doctrines of Christ they don't like by teaching their "Covenant Theology" or "Dispensationalism" that makes many of the Words of Christ obsolete, yet they still claim to be Christians.

Can you believe that?

And then they say I might be with following the Devil because a coat hanger moved in my hands when I walked over a water pipe.

I think this is the difference: My ancestors came from the British Isles that created the Puritans and Pilgrims that founded this country. The Puritans and Pilgrims banned Christmas as a pagan ritual in the United States for many, many years, because they knew the demonic origins of the Christmas ritual.

The Mennonites are from Germany and Central Europe, where these pagan rituals of a green tree, yule log, Santa, reindeer pulling the sleigh of Odin, an egg laying rabbit of fertility that happens on "Easter/Ostara", eating ham at Easter to honor a dead god - these rituals go back to long before the time of Christ, and were never fully eradicated from Central Europe, but were mixed with Christian traditions. So as Mennonites, you have a much harder battle to fight than I do, what with your family, friends and church all following these pagan rituals.

But that dowsing is from the Devil - that must be another tradition from Germany. I know the Catholic church teaches this doctrine.

And I know that the scientific method came from the British Isles when Central Europe was still under the yoke of the Catholic church. A scientist might say that dowsing doesn't work, or ask for proof, but nobody in the 21st century says dowsing comes from the Devil. Only someone with a Catholic mindset from the 1600's would think that.

Regardless, dowsing for water is not in the Bible, or condemned by it. That is the difference.

And I did not believe in dowsing either, until I experienced it "first hand". So I can understand not believing that dowsing works, but saying that "the devil is in the dowsing rod" - that really went over the top.

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I wonder if Ken is ever going to respond back whether he believes Sodom was actually destroyed and Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt?

What do you think? Did Genesis 19 really happen? I do.

Did Lot's wife turn into a pillar of salt? She would if she were covered in 2 tons of salt. There are a lot of salt pillars near the south eastern corner of the Dead Sea.

As Christ said, "Remember Lot's Wife". Luke 17:32

I think Christ knows more than anyone else about Genesis 19. Peter also warned us about Sodom. 2 Pet 2:6

The Lord rained fire and brimstone (sulphur) on Sodom. Gen 19:24. Ron Wyatt found a location near the Dead Sea that was full of sulphur balls encased in a rocky shell. When he cut these balls open, they were 99% pure sulphur, and would burn. If you have ever smelled burning sulphur, it is horrible.

Did Ron Wyatt find the location of Sodom? Probably. Will anyone believe him? No, but they will believe just about anything else as being "true" as long as everyone else in their church believes the same thing.

[Ken]

I wonder if Ken is ever going to respond back whether he believes Sodom was actually destroyed and Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt?

I answered your question. Scroll back up a page if you are curious.

[Soloist]

John why do you think that Jacob used dowsing?

How else? Trial and error? Keep digging 135' deep holes until you find something? No.

God showed Moses a tree that made the waters of Marah not bitter so the Israelites could drink. Exodus 15:23-25

Likewise, God showed Abraham and his children a way to find water in the desert. Could it be dowsing? I don't know but it makes sense. But it sure wasn't trial and error.

Why could it not be trial and error? Do you have Scripture to support that Abraham only dug 1 well and found water first time? That’s postulated. Prayer is a much more valid option then speculating about dowsing which they didn’t mention.

35 million Elvis fans cannot all be wrong. Likewise, a lot of people have used dowsing rods over the centuries and it has only remained a practice because it works. Dowsing works by "random chance" only when you pick "random people" that do not have this gift.

Elvis fans? Really? Most of us hardly even know who he was. I really really doubt 35 million Elvis fans used dowsing.

Dowsing cannot be scientifically evaluated because it is powered by the field that surrounds certain individuals, which "science" ignores because it cannot understand or measure this field.

Pure speculation. There is no Scripture, or evidence for this field. My father in law argues it’s a field like magnetism that interacts with certain branches.

Modern science tells us that being telepathic and reading someone's thoughts is impossible, yet the Bible says otherwise. Matt 12:25, Luke 6:8. Telepathy is a gift that is only given to certain people. Dowsing is also a gift that only certain people have.

Science also tells us Jesus didn’t rise from the dead. Your argument is flawed, Jesus is not like other men. If perhaps Jesus had held up a stick, and knew their thoughts because of holding the stick…. Then maybe you would have an argument.

The most ridiculous part of this discussion is that dowsing is somehow related to the Devil. Where is that in the Bible? Huh? Crickets

.

Deu 18:10  There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11  Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12  For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Water witching or dowsing as you probably prefer, is divination. Try to argue it any other way you want but you are coming up with knowledge. If it only worked for Christians maybe you’d have a sound argument. It works however for people that worship Satan.

Yet the Bible clearly states that the wicked do things "under every green tree". Jer 3:6. deut 12;2, 1 Kings 14:23, 2 Ki 16:4, 2 Ki 17:10, 2 Chron 28:4, Isaiah 57:5, and many other places. Yet these same people that say dowsing is "from the Devil" bring a green tree into their homes every year, deck it with silver and gold, and lay their presents before it, just like an idol. Jer 10:2-4

What people are you accusing him of bringing in green trees? I certainly don’t bring a Christmas tree. I’ve never encountered a single Mennonite who has a Christmas tree. At least from the conservative spectrum.

The people that say dowsing is from the devil are the same ones that worship the Birth of Christ on a day when Christ was not born, as the shepherds are not in the fields with their flocks on December 25th. Yet this very same day of Dec 25th is the birthday of Mithras, Horus/Osiris, Adonis, Dionysus, and every other "solar deity" worshiped by pagans to honor the "god of the sun" that has "come back from the dead" after the winter solstice. This ritual on Dec 25th is the way they worship the Birth of Christ - a ritual of blasphemy that mixes the holy with the profane and is obviously from the Devil.

I have responded very clearly as to shepherds grazing their flocks in the middle of winter.
That argument doesn’t carry any weight for anyone who understands the climate and sheep rearing. I know both, you know one. Oregon has a colder climate then Israel. Sheep are regularly grazing in the middle of winter.
I’m not going to actually take a stance as to when Jesus was born, I don’t see that as particularly important. I celebrate the birth of Christ without presents, without decoration, outside of the 25th we have zero pagan practice for you to condemn.

I think most of what "passes" for Christianity is really based on following the way of the heathen, which has been inspired by the Devil. Yet the people are not repentant, but are quite proud of how they have created and follow their own religion. And they get rid of the Doctrines of Christ they don't like by teaching their "Covenant Theology" or "Dispensationalism" that makes many of the Words of Christ obsolete, yet they still claim to be Christians.

Can you believe that?

You keep arguing somewhat obscure doctrines that have been shown to be false by scripture and you simply change your point and move on. Outside of Paul being a heretic in your eyes, what do we actually do that you are object and why are you even here?

And then they say I might be with following the Devil because a coat hanger moved in my hands when I walked over a water pipe.

Yes I say that you are in dangerous waters for more than one reason. When a coat hanger randomly moves in my hands it’s usually because I have butter fingers and drop it.

I think this is the difference: My ancestors came from the British Isles that created the Puritans and Pilgrims that founded this country. The Puritans and Pilgrims banned Christmas as a pagan ritual in the United States for many, many years, because they knew the demonic origins of the Christmas ritual.

I did not grow up Mennonite. My ancestry was from Native Americans and Europe/England.

The Mennonites are from Germany and Central Europe, where these pagan rituals of a green tree, yule log, Santa, reindeer pulling the sleigh of Odin, an egg laying rabbit of fertility that happens on "Easter/Ostara", eating ham at Easter to honor a dead god - these rituals go back to long before the time of Christ, and were never fully eradicated from Central Europe, but were mixed with Christian traditions. So as Mennonites, you have a much harder battle to fight than I do, what with your family, friends and church all following these pagan rituals.

I don’t know what churches you have been going to… i’ve never seen anyone celebrate any of those things. Can you name any conservative Mennonite church you’ve gone to?

But that dowsing is from the Devil - that must be another tradition from Germany. I know the Catholic church teaches this doctrine.

It was not the Catholic church that taught me that.

Regardless, dowsing for water is not in the Bible, or condemned by it. That is the difference.

There are many things not expressly condemned in Scripture that one can intuitively understand is wrong.
You have been basically arguing it is in scripture. I would agree it’s in scripture, it’s called divination.
you ever hear of a divining rod?

And I did not believe in dowsing either, until I experienced it "first hand". So I can understand not believing that dowsing works, but saying that "the devil is in the dowsing rod" - that really went over the top.

I’ll leave off with this, how do you know what witchcraft is? You really need to answer some of these questions otherwise it just leaves a disingenuous feeling to your responses.

[ohio jones]

Modern science tells us that being telepathic and reading someone's thoughts is impossible, yet the Bible says otherwise. Matt 12:25, Luke 6:8. Telepathy is a gift that is only given to certain people. Dowsing is also a gift that only certain people have.

I'm not sure the Bible supports anyone other than Jesus being able to read people's thoughts. Jesus also knew where to tell the disciples to let their nets down to catch fish. Would it not have been possible for God to tell the patriarchs where to dig for water? That is no more speculative, and much more in keeping with the rest of scripture, than supposing that they resorted to dowsing.

[JohnHurt]

I’ll leave off with this, how do you know what witchcraft is? You really need to answer some of these questions otherwise it just leaves a disingenuous feeling to your responses.

You are a very insulting person.

I tried to share something with you from my own experience, and then you ruthlessly insulted me by saying that I was in league with the devil - all because I used a coat hanger to find water.

I apologize for insulting you as my response.

Maybe you can ask this person if he uses the Devil to find water:



If you want to know more about dowsing, ask a water well drilling company. They use dowsers all the time. That is how I met my dowser, Mr. Woodard. He was recommended by the water drilling company that drilled my well in 2007. And Mr. Woodard was a very conscientious Christian man, in his 80's, that would not take payment for his services. He also successfully found water with his methods, in the exact place, and at the exact depth he predicted.

So you insulted him too. Mr. Woodard was not in league with the devil either.

So before you start telling me who is, and who isn't from the devil, you need to find some scripture in the Bible, somewhere, that clearly tells all of us that water dowsing is from the devil.

Where is it?

You can't find any Biblical support for your insults, can you?

I think you and your friends just lost the discussion.

And to answer you with your own words:

You really need to answer some of these questions otherwise it just leaves a disingenuous feeling to your responses.

Genesis 19 anyone?

[Josh]

I’d like an explanation of just how exactly a stick suddenly bends itself downward when it passed over buried water.

I have lots of sticks in my yard and a well yet this has never happened.

[Soloist]

You are a very insulting person.

I tried to share something with you from my own experience, and then you ruthlessly insulted me by saying that I was in league with the devil - all because I used a coat hanger to find water.

I apologize for insulting you as my response.

When you insult and then apologize in your same post that is written text, I think that speaks for itself. I have never insulted you and if you are going to post support for something many of us believe is witchcraft then expect to get pushback.

If you want to know more about dowsing, ask a water well drilling company. They use dowsers all the time. That is how I met my dowser, Mr. Woodard. He was recommended by the water drilling company that drilled my well in 2007. And Mr. Woodard was a very conscientious Christian man, in his 80's, that would not take payment for his services. He also successfully found water with his methods, in the exact place, and at the exact depth he predicted.

My father in-law is a water well driller as his father before him. I’m not speaking ignorantly here I do know a little about water well drilling.

So you insulted him too. Mr. Woodard was not in league with the devil either.

I stand by my words that dowsing is witchcraft. I don’t insult anyone.

So before you start telling me who is, and who isn't from the devil, you need to find some scripture in the Bible, somewhere, that clearly tells all of us that water dowsing is from the devil.

I can quote it and I will but I suspect you will discount it.

Hos 4:12  My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.

2Ki 17:17  And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

You can't find any Biblical support for your insults, can you?

I think you and your friends just lost the discussion.

This doesn’t have to be personal, you could answer how you determine what is witchcraft or not. That would be more productive as that is the real point of your disagreement with me. I have posted some verses to show you and I fully expect you to disagree. Can you take the argument to how you determine it? I can bring up people who practice all sorts of wicked things and claim to be Christians but that isn’t the point.

[barnhart]

John Hurt, I actually agree with your underlying point, that people have always been very smart, capable and had the ability to move around the globe. But I feel like you dial it up to eleven and that is where you loose me.

Yes, but isn't "going to eleven" the fun part?

Not for me.

But since you mentioned iron sharpening iron, I will bring to your attention that water is used to symbolize several things in the scripture and not all of them are positive as you suggest. Water is also used to symbolize of judgement and destruction.

[JohnHurt]

Modern science tells us that being telepathic and reading someone's thoughts is impossible, yet the Bible says otherwise. Matt 12:25, Luke 6:8. Telepathy is a gift that is only given to certain people. Dowsing is also a gift that only certain people have.

I'm not sure the Bible supports anyone other than Jesus being able to read people's thoughts. Jesus also knew where to tell the disciples to let their nets down to catch fish. Would it not have been possible for God to tell the patriarchs where to dig for water? That is no more speculative, and much more in keeping with the rest of scripture, than supposing that they resorted to dowsing.

Knowing how to find water would be an on-going gift that God continues to give to some of His Children for the benefit of all of His Children. Access to water is the difference between life and death. Our God gives us many blessings for our well being.

There are spiritual gifts, like the gift of teaching that some men have, and others do not. Healing - some are much better than others. These gifts have not ceased.

Knowledge is a gift that has been passed down through the generations.

Enoch walked with God and learned many things. Noah knew how to build an ark, an amazing feat. The pre-flood culture of Adam discovered metals (Tubal Cain), musical instruments, animal husbandry, agriculture and many things, because God led them.

The entire account of the creation and the pre-flood world was transmitted orally to Abraham by Noah and his sons, and then codified by Moses in Genesis.

If you research how long Shem lived after the flood, his timeline overlaps Abraham. The Book of Jasher and other non-canonical works say that Abraham lived with Shem and learned from him. Some of the Rabbinical writings put Shem as Melchizedek, the King of Salem, or Jerusalem.

That dowsing, or some method to find water in a dry land, was given by God to Adam, then to Abraham by Shem, as a benefit to us all - is a logical idea.

And if you really were telepathic, and let anyone know you can read or transmit thoughts to others, they would burn you as a witch, or hang you on a cross. So no, the gift of telepathy does not exist. At least not in public. Or remote viewing, it is not real either.

And the gift of water dowsing only exists in public because you have to demonstrate it in front of others. Otherwise, they would all die of thirst, even as they throw rocks at you for being a "witch" for finding the water they need to drink.

So maybe Abraham and Jacob didn't write down how they found water 135' down in the desert, because they would have been abducted as a slave to find water, or killed as a "witch" when everyone knew how they did it. But they still did it.

And if Abraham and Jacob could pray and God would tell them where to dig, it is the same thing. But everyone still needs water, even today, either by prayer or by dowsing, and most of us don't measure up to the status of Abraham or Jacob.

God only spoke to Moses directly, and the other prophets by visions and dreams. My dowser found a water channel crack, just a few feet wide, I think it was 120' down, by walking back and forth over the property. I don't see how you can do that with a dream or vision. i think for the rest of us "lesser men", God took care of us too by showing us how to dowse.

If you have a talent that God gave you that no one else has, it can make these less gifted people very jealous and envious. And they fear and try to destroy what they do not understand. So don't cast your pearls of wisdom before swine. Because they will turn and rend you.

I seem to have a lack of discernment.

Thanks,

John

[JohnHurt]

I can quote it and I will but I suspect you will discount it.
Hos 4:12  My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.
2Ki 17:17  And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

I am sorry, I cannot find water dowsing in any of these passages.

And if holding a stick is "witchcraft", then you need to explain the staff that Moses held.