How to Overcome Addictions?

[RZehr]

I just read this discussion through now. When I read this part of the conversation, I immediately thought of I Timothy 1:15, where Paul says that "The Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst," the prime example. He doesn't say "of whom I WAS the worst", but "AM the worst". Are we uncomfortable with an admission like that?

It does sting to make that admission, and is a good thing to keep in remember.

It doesn't make sense that Paul is saying conclusively that he is worst. If this is comparatively measurable, then would we be comfortable saying of ourselves "Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am not the worst"? Can I say that Paul was a worse sinner than me?

[temporal1]

I just read this discussion through now. When I read this part of the conversation, I immediately thought of I Timothy 1:15, where Paul says that "The Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst," the prime example. He doesn't say "of whom I WAS the worst", but "AM the worst". Are we uncomfortable with an admission like that?

It does sting to make that admission, and is a good thing to keep in remember.

It doesn't make sense that Paul is saying conclusively that he is worst. If this is comparatively measurable, then would we be comfortable saying of ourselves "Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am not the worst"? Can I say that Paul was a worse sinner than me?

(to me) it says, we judge ourselves. but, for ourselves, as with others, we are not the final judge.

i have wondered for many years about forgiveness of self. it can be hard.
i witnessed my father, who did wrong for many years, but overcame it. we all forgave him, many times over, but, i always sensed he never fully forgave himself.

i see/sense this in others, and, i experience it myself.

i appreciate george's observation that this, in itself, may be underestimating God.
and, that is worthy of question, too!
i may not settle on it in this temporal life. i don't expect to have all answers.
i hope to be relieved of questions. in God's time.

questions.
think. if Eve had not asked the question, "may we eat this fruit?" -

[MaxPC]

For me part of overcoming addiction was about never minimizing the addiction but clearly labeling it as sin. It took years but neither did I have an accountability partner so much which likely would have helped... I think it is important to keep in mind that we can overcome for good but because of the weakness it would also be wise if we can avoid places where that temptation might show up.
One time when I opened up to a brother(in Christ) about some of my related problems tied to my addiction when I was quite distressed, he replied firmly, "You let your family down, the church down, and God down..."

Thank God for his courage and a couple months later I thanked him and said, "That was exactly what I needed to hear." - Even if it was what I didn't want to hear.

Amen. Such direct and honest interventions are necessary to progress.

It's good to see a charitable discussion of this important topic. I don't think this has been mentioned yet but there is an official definition of addiction. Do you think it's complete or is there room for improvement?

According to the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM), the definition of addiction is the following:

“Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors. Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.“
https://sobernation.com/22-different-ty ... ddictions/

[gcdonner]

I just read this discussion through now. When I read this part of the conversation, I immediately thought of I Timothy 1:15, where Paul says that "The Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst," the prime example. He doesn't say "of whom I WAS the worst", but "AM the worst". Are we uncomfortable with an admission like that?

I wonder if he was speaking metaphorically here? Everywhere else he addresses believers as "saints" and don't forget Romans 6:1

Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 

And what would you say to James?

Jas 4:5  Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 
6  But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 
7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 
8  Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 
9  Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 
10  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 

Or what of John:

1Jn 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 
5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 
6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 
7  Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 
8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 
9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 
10  In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 

Sin is the exception, not the norm for Christians. That is what the bible teaches.

Rom_5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Please note that Paul speaks of being sinners as a past nature, not a present one. One who continues to believe he is a sinner will be pre-disposed to sin, but one who believes scripture and understands that we are no longer sinners, but saints will not be pre-disposed to sin. We may yet stumble from time to time, but it is not our habit, it is not our expectation.

Rom 6:2  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 

Too many try to make that one metaphorical statement by Paul (out of context to boot) to justify continuing in sin.

Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 

Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

Are you determined to overcome sin or submit to it?

Rom 6:15  What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 
16  Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 
17  But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 
18  Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 

Jesus not only died to pay the penalty of sin/death but also to deliver us from the power of sin.

Rom 6:22  But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 
Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Think about it!

[KingdomBuilder]

I won't quote it (consider yourselves spared), but that was a great reply gcdonner

[Neto]

I just read this discussion through now. When I read this part of the conversation, I immediately thought of I Timothy 1:15, where Paul says that "The Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst," the prime example. He doesn't say "of whom I WAS the worst", but "AM the worst". Are we uncomfortable with an admission like that?

I wonder if he was speaking metaphorically here? ....

I John 1:8: "If we claim to be w/o sin, we are self-deceived, and there is no truth in us."

I see these Scripture passages (those you quoted, and these I've mentioned, and others) as representing the reality, and the Potential. In reality, we are sinners, but because of the death & resurrection of Jesus, and because of the Holy Spirit of the Holy God living in us, we have the potential (a new reality, which will only be fully realized when we become like Him at the transformation, when He returns) to not choose to live in our "natural habitat", which is sin. I'm sure that everyone has heard the (possibly fictional) story of the Indian man who told a younger person that "We have two dogs fighting inside of us, the one we feed, wins." This is the tension of the Christian life, and it is necessary to live in the Light, in order to show Light. It is not native to us to refuse sin, even though we have the new nature brought about by the new birth.
[I know that you will likely not agree with all of what I've written here, especially in regards to the transformation being now yet future, but I do respect your view, even though I do not agree. Peace.]

[gcdonner]

I just read this discussion through now. When I read this part of the conversation, I immediately thought of I Timothy 1:15, where Paul says that "The Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst," the prime example. He doesn't say "of whom I WAS the worst", but "AM the worst". Are we uncomfortable with an admission like that?

I wonder if he was speaking metaphorically here? ....

I John 1:8: "If we claim to be w/o sin, we are self-deceived, and there is no truth in us."

I see these Scripture passages (those you quoted, and these I've mentioned, and others) as representing the reality, and the Potential. In reality, we are sinners, but because of the death & resurrection of Jesus, and because of the Holy Spirit of the Holy God living in us, we have the potential (a new reality, which will only be fully realized when we become like Him at the transformation, when He returns) to not choose to live in our "natural habitat", which is sin. I'm sure that everyone has heard the (possibly fictional) story of the Indian man who told a younger person that "We have two dogs fighting inside of us, the one we feed, wins." This is the tension of the Christian life, and it is necessary to live in the Light, in order to show Light. It is not native to us to refuse sin, even though we have the new nature brought about by the new birth.
[I know that you will likely not agree with all of what I've written here, especially in regards to the transformation being now yet future, but I do respect your view, even though I do not agree. Peace.]

I only disagree with you because you confound scripture. It is not reality now and then reality future, never mind my eschatology. I believed this when I was teaching Dispensensational theology. If you read Romans 6 in it's context, you can't escape the implications. As Paul said, it matters to whom you yield. If you are already figuring you are defeated, then you will fall in sin, but if you have reckoned yourself dead to sin, you will overcome. John said, IF a man sin, not when a man sins. With your mindset, you are already defeated and predisposed to sinning and that is contrary to scripture.
We are called saints for a reason, why do you think James wrote as much as he did about being contrary to a pure life? The same problem existed back then. We are called saints because we have been separated, sanctified, set apart from the world, from sin and unto God.
It's your choice, will you believe the Word of God and live above sin or submit to the lies of the evil one and stumble around in darkness? Jesus HAS died for our deliverance from sin as well as from death. If he couldn't do the former, then can we really believe he could do the latter?
I don't teach sinlessness, but sin-less-ness. Sin is the exception, NOT the rule. That is biblical expectation.
Think about it.

[KingdomBuilder]

“She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."

Matt 1:21

[silentreader]

I wonder if he was speaking metaphorically here? ....

I John 1:8: "If we claim to be w/o sin, we are self-deceived, and there is no truth in us."

I see these Scripture passages (those you quoted, and these I've mentioned, and others) as representing the reality, and the Potential. In reality, we are sinners, but because of the death & resurrection of Jesus, and because of the Holy Spirit of the Holy God living in us, we have the potential (a new reality, which will only be fully realized when we become like Him at the transformation, when He returns) to not choose to live in our "natural habitat", which is sin. I'm sure that everyone has heard the (possibly fictional) story of the Indian man who told a younger person that "We have two dogs fighting inside of us, the one we feed, wins." This is the tension of the Christian life, and it is necessary to live in the Light, in order to show Light. It is not native to us to refuse sin, even though we have the new nature brought about by the new birth.
[I know that you will likely not agree with all of what I've written here, especially in regards to the transformation being now yet future, but I do respect your view, even though I do not agree. Peace.]

I only disagree with you because you confound scripture. It is not reality now and then reality future, never mind my eschatology. I believed this when I was teaching Dispensensational theology. If you read Romans 6 in it's context, you can't escape the implications. As Paul said, it matters to whom you yield. If you are already figuring you are defeated, then you will fall in sin, but if you have reckoned yourself dead to sin, you will overcome. John said, IF a man sin, not when a man sins. With your mindset, you are already defeated and predisposed to sinning and that is contrary to scripture.
We are called saints for a reason, why do you think James wrote as much as he did about being contrary to a pure life? The same problem existed back then. We are called saints because we have been separated, sanctified, set apart from the world, from sin and unto God.
It's your choice, will you believe the Word of God and live above sin or submit to the lies of the evil one and stumble around in darkness? Jesus HAS died for our deliverance from sin as well as from death. If he couldn't do the former, then can we really believe he could do the latter?
I don't teach sinlessness, but sin-less-ness. Sin is the exception, NOT the rule. That is biblical expectation.
Think about it.

I shudder to think, gc, that once again I seem to agree with you. I think a misunderstanding of Romans 6 will lead to a misunderstanding of Romans 7.

[gcdonner]

I shudder to think, gc, that once again I seem to agree with you. I think a misunderstanding of Romans 6 will lead to a misunderstanding of Romans 7.

I agree, and a misunderstanding also drifts over into Romans 8.
It is amazing that even a Preterist can be a Biblically conservative Christian, isn't it? Actually, Preterism is more conservative in it's interpretation that any other viewpoint, since it takes Jesus at his word without needing to stretch them...