Divorce & Remarriage

[mike]

Here is a non-hypothetical, real situation.

I know a man who committed a serious crime and received a 15-40 year prison sentence. His wife has five children aged about 10 and younger. Most people in this woman's life, including her parents, have advised her to divorce her husband and move forward with her life, including possible remarriage. It goes without saying that her life for the past several years as a veritable single mom, now having to work full-time to provide for her family, is extremely difficult. The prospect of spending much of her life in this circumstance is daunting beyond words.

Would those of you who oppose the conservative Anabaptist position on D&R advise her, as do most of her acquaintances in her evangelical Protestant church, to divorce her husband and marry another? Or would you support her in her desire to remain faithful to him?

Are they Christians and belonging to a fellowship that teaches against D&R?

They are Christians, but do not belong to a fellowship that teaches against D&R.

[mike]

Here is a non-hypothetical, real situation.

I know a man who committed a serious crime and received a 15-40 year prison sentence. His wife has five children aged about 10 and younger. Most people in this woman's life, including her parents, have advised her to divorce her husband and move forward with her life, including possible remarriage. It goes without saying that her life for the past several years as a veritable single mom, now having to work full-time to provide for her family, is extremely difficult. The prospect of spending much of her life in this circumstance is daunting beyond words.

Would those of you who oppose the conservative Anabaptist position on D&R advise her, as do most of her acquaintances in her evangelical Protestant church, to divorce her husband and marry another? Or would you support her in her desire to remain faithful to him?

That would depend on if he did something to break the marriage bond, like adultery, and the circumstances under which they were originally married, such as if she were a believer who understood marriage is to be for life.

Generally speaking, in our church, divorcing your spouse is strongly discouraged. It’s a different situation when someone’s spouse abandons them, is unfaithful, or goes and marries someone else and has children with that new spouse.

They were believers who understood marriage to be for life. The husband's crime involved adultery, committed with a minor who also had his child. He is repentant but obviously must pay the consequences for his conduct.

[Josh]

Is the Holdeman Mennonites' refusal to accept as valid the baptisms of other churches also a tool to exclude undesirable people?

Huh? How does this exclude anyone?

Nobody is barred from baptism or membership.

I am quite sure that there are requirements for baptism and membership in the Holdeman church. In my opinion, it is no more unfair to say that this excludes undesirable people than it is to say that the conservative Anabaptist position on D&R excludes undesirable people.

Mike, yes, there are requirements, as any New Testament church should have.

The typical CA position is a horse of a different colour. Requiring families to get divorced before joining your church is an entirely different thing than, say, requiring that you share a testimony of being born again.

Requiring someone to get a divorce before joining your church is entirely unscriptural.

[mike]

Huh? How does this exclude anyone?

Nobody is barred from baptism or membership.

I am quite sure that there are requirements for baptism and membership in the Holdeman church. In my opinion, it is no more unfair to say that this excludes undesirable people than it is to say that the conservative Anabaptist position on D&R excludes undesirable people.

Mike, yes, there are requirements, as any New Testament church should have.

The typical CA position is a horse of a different colour. Requiring families to get divorced before joining your church is an entirely different thing than, say, requiring that you share a testimony of being born again.

Requiring someone to get a divorce before joining your church is entirely unscriptural.

I understand that is your opinion. However, conservative Anabaptists generally do not share this view.

I think it is fair to say that Holdeman Mennonites have certain requirements for baptism and membership, and because of their deeply held beliefs, certain people are not eligible to be members, such as those who believe their prior baptism in other churches to have been valid and therefore would not want to submit to another. I would not say that this means Holdeman view is "basically a tool to exclude undesirable people." This would be uncharitible and unfair to them.

In the same way, I believe it is uncharitable and unfair of you to say that the conservative Anabaptist position on D&R is "basically a tool to exclude undesirable people." The CA position is a result of deeply held religious beliefs based on their view of scripture, not a result of wanting to exclude undesirable people. You may of course believe this if you like, but I do not believe this to be the case.

[mike]

Here is a non-hypothetical, real situation.

I know a man who committed a serious crime and received a 15-40 year prison sentence. His wife has five children aged about 10 and younger. Most people in this woman's life, including her parents, have advised her to divorce her husband and move forward with her life, including possible remarriage. It goes without saying that her life for the past several years as a veritable single mom, now having to work full-time to provide for her family, is extremely difficult. The prospect of spending much of her life in this circumstance is daunting beyond words.

Would those of you who oppose the conservative Anabaptist position on D&R advise her, as do most of her acquaintances in her evangelical Protestant church, to divorce her husband and marry another? Or would you support her in her desire to remain faithful to him?

That would depend on if he did something to break the marriage bond, like adultery, and the circumstances under which they were originally married, such as if she were a believer who understood marriage is to be for life.

Generally speaking, in our church, divorcing your spouse is strongly discouraged. It’s a different situation when someone’s spouse abandons them, is unfaithful, or goes and marries someone else and has children with that new spouse.

They were married as believers who understood marriage to be for life. As I described to Max, the husband's crime involved adultery, with a minor who had his child. He was jailed and sentenced, has repented but will spend much of the rest of his life in prison. The relationship of husband and wife is currently much better with him in prison than it was the last several years he was a free man. What would you advise for the wife in such a case?

[MaxPC]

Here is a non-hypothetical, real situation.

I know a man who committed a serious crime and received a 15-40 year prison sentence. His wife has five children aged about 10 and younger. Most people in this woman's life, including her parents, have advised her to divorce her husband and move forward with her life, including possible remarriage. It goes without saying that her life for the past several years as a veritable single mom, now having to work full-time to provide for her family, is extremely difficult. The prospect of spending much of her life in this circumstance is daunting beyond words.

Would those of you who oppose the conservative Anabaptist position on D&R advise her, as do most of her acquaintances in her evangelical Protestant church, to divorce her husband and marry another? Or would you support her in her desire to remain faithful to him?

That would depend on if he did something to break the marriage bond, like adultery, and the circumstances under which they were originally married, such as if she were a believer who understood marriage is to be for life.

Generally speaking, in our church, divorcing your spouse is strongly discouraged. It’s a different situation when someone’s spouse abandons them, is unfaithful, or goes and marries someone else and has children with that new spouse.

They were married as believers who understood marriage to be for life. As I described to Max, the husband's crime involved adultery, with a minor who had his child. He was jailed and sentenced, has repented but will spend much of the rest of his life in prison. The relationship of husband and wife is currently much better with him in prison than it was the last several years he was a free man. What would you advise for the wife in such a case?

Personally I would advise her to follow her conviction in faith then find a means to help her regardless of her decisions. There are quite a few medical jobs needing good people. A 7 week course can train a high school grad/GED grad as a medical assistant and provide as much salary as a teacher with a college degree. The tuition is less than $1500 and I think I would find a way to get her into a better paying job without having to incur student loan debt.

[KingdomBuilder]

Having to divorce a wife you’ve had for decades and separate a home of 10 children for the sake of church membership is not even remotely comparable to having to be baptized again.

REALLY!?

[mike]

Having to divorce a wife you’ve had for decades and separate a home of 10 children for the sake of church membership is not even remotely comparable to having to be baptized again.

REALLY!?

In terms of the difficulty, yes, there is no comparison.

Such a thing would be extremely sad and difficult, but in the conservative Anabaptist view would not negate the fact of a prior valid marriage being still in effect in God's eyes. The passage of time and the fact of children being born do not validate a marriage, in the CA perspective.

There is the example in Ezra of Jewish marriages which were against the law being invalidated, and there having to be separation. No doubt children were involved there also. A very sad and difficult thing.

[KingdomBuilder]

It’s not time and children that’s my complaint. It’s holding converts to suffer the errors of their pre-convert past.

It’s just dumb.

[mike]

It’s not time and children that’s my complaint. It’s holding converts to suffer the errors of their pre-convert past.

It’s just dumb.

That's one of the kinder things that is said of the CA position actually. But I understand why you feel that way.

A lot depends on what one's view of marriage is, and whether one being a professing Christian affects whether a marriage is valid. One might also ask, to what extent must a person suffer from the errors of their pre-convert past? Can all past mistakes prior to conversion simply be ignored, with no more consequences?