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lesterb wrote:
I think that if one of our members went out and got a tattoo, we'd probably excommunicate him. If a convert came into the church with tattoos, we'd probably tell him to wear a long sleeved shirt. Why? Because tattoos are pretty obviously from the world and typify the sinful doings of people. I don't need to go to the OT for that. The NT tells us to avoid all appearance of evil, and I'd place tattoos right there. If you got them and didn't know better, fine. If you did know better and now wish you wouldn't have gotten them, fine. But I have little time for the kind of Biblical games that are showing up on MennoNet the last while. Life is serious, because we are living out our apprenticeship for eternity.

lesterb wrote:I don't feel bound by any of the OT laws. But many of their principles are carried forward into the New Testament. But we need to realize that there were various classes of laws. Since Israel was a nation, they had to have civil laws. How were they handle a lawbreaker, a rapist, or a murderer. Etc.

That class of laws we don't really need to pay a lot of attention to.

Then there were the health and safety laws. The laws of uncleaness were part of that, though some had some spiritual significance as well.

Then there were ceremonial laws, like the laws of sacrifice and the festivals.

All three of those categories are pretty well redundant.

The other category is what is often called the moral law. I went through the whole books of the law one time and categorized all the laws in them. Took a good part of a week. But it was very insightful. I feel that the moral part of the law is where God revealed his feelings about sin. This part of the OT is worthwhile studying, just to get some insight into God's thinking about things. But again, I don't go there and make them part of my daily life, because I believe that the NT lists what we need.

The Sermon on the Mount shows Jesus going back to the moral law and strengthening it. God expects better things of us than he expected of the OT believers, because we have the Spirit and the grace that comes with the Spirit.

I think that if one of our members went out and got a tattoo, we'd probably excommunicate him. If a convert came into the church with tattoos, we'd probably tell him to wear a long sleeved shirt. Why? Because tattoos are pretty obviously from the world and typify the sinful doings of people. I don't need to go to the OT for that. The NT tells us to avoid all appearance of evil, and I'd place tattoos right there. If you got them and didn't know better, fine. If you did know better and now wish you wouldn't have gotten them, fine. But I have little time for the kind of Biblical games that are showing up on MennoNet the last while. Life is serious, because we are living out our apprenticeship for eternity.

karpos wrote: If you wish to play that game, since loving your neighbor is in leviticus, you can make the argument that if women are allowed to sit on the couch all the time, you do not have to love your neighbor.

I think your argument qualifies as a syllogistic fallacy.

If feeding a poor person is loving your neighbor and loving your neighbor is old testament and therefore not binding then I do not have to help feed the poor. This is the type of illogical argument you are making.

lesterb wrote: You don't seem to understand what Boot is saying. What he is saying here is exactly why I don't use the OT for NT era doctrine. If you can go to the OT for one thing, I can for another.

karpos wrote:

Reflecting wrote:
I don’t know if tattoos/ cuttings/ markings are mentioned in the NT per se, but
- OT says “I am the Lord.” This was the context or reason given. God is still our Creator and Lord today.
-NT does teach we are not to have excessive outward adorning. To etch something into to body God created for you zooms way beyond adorning it.

MHO

marks on the head and hand are mentioned in revelation 13.

karpos wrote:

Bootstrap wrote:
To be blunt, I don't think you understand logical fallacies very well.

when i started computer programming (a LONG time ago), i tried using boolean logic to do complicated things and it didnt work very well. I understand logical fallacies quite well.

karpos wrote:
I understand it perfectly. If Jesus quotes part of the OT as something we should live by, then I reject the notion that it is invalid.

Matthew 22:34-40 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Great Commandment
34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”