Best argument for Non-resistance

[Josh]

The fact remains almost nobody outside of conservative Anabaptists actually believes you shouldn’t kill people sometimes.

Why do you add the "conservative" to Anabaptist? The Confession of Faith in a Mennonite Perspective, which MC-USA affirms, says

As disciples of Christ, we do not prepare for war, or participate in war or military service. The same Spirit that empowered Jesus also empowers us to love enemies, to forgive rather than to seek revenge, to practice right relationships, to rely on the community of faith to settle disputes, and to resist evil without violence. --http://mennoniteusa.org/confession-of-f ... esistance/

I haven't found MC-USA classified as "conservative Anabaptist" on Mennonet.

My experience when I was part of an MC USA church was that young people enrolled in the Guard, families kept shotguns under their beds, and concealed carrying was a fad that picked up steam (myself, sadly, being one of them).

This is analogous to “conservative” Anabaptists who nonetheless are putting Republican presidential campaign bumper stickers on their cars, buying compact handguns with various excuses why they need them, and collecting rifles with a military style appearance.

Both are inconsistent with what I believe to be both New Testament and Anabaptist principles.

[LJones]

Thank you for sharing this LJones- your honesty and sincere desire to know God's will is such a blessing to read- I was wondering, since you are seeking to know what to do (as a teacher) has your priest offered any advice on what you would do in a situation where you are put in a position of protecting the children in case someone armed shows up to do harm to them? Some direction that you would have peace about?

Well... I think that his position would be to do my very best to keep the kids safe. I realized the other day that my class would be taking my attention if something happened during the day. How could I leave them to go seek out a shooter? I think we get these grand scenarios in our heads where we are heroic and powerful. The truth is that we are neither. So, do the best you can. I don't think my priest would tell me what to do in the situation of resisting the shooter (if I had the opportunity). He doesn't seem to be willing to condemn those who choose to defend themselves. He speaks in the first person ("I don't think that I can...") when talking about these issues.

[Josh]

And on the progressive wing of MC USA leaning folks, generally, violence on behalf of leftist groups is excused as not actually violence. It’s entirely tribal and political.

However, hypocrisy isn’t an argument against righteousness, and I think both the early confessions and the 1995 confession lay out a New Testament stance on nonresistance. But without the rest of obedience to the New Testament, a confession doesn’t bring about a changed, godly life.

[Josh]

Thank you for sharing this LJones- your honesty and sincere desire to know God's will is such a blessing to read- I was wondering, since you are seeking to know what to do (as a teacher) has your priest offered any advice on what you would do in a situation where you are put in a position of protecting the children in case someone armed shows up to do harm to them? Some direction that you would have peace about?

Well... I think that his position would be to do my very best to keep the kids safe. I realized the other day that my class would be taking my attention if something happened during the day. How could I leave them to go seek out a shooter? I think we get these grand scenarios in our heads where we are heroic and powerful. The truth is that we are neither. So, do the best you can. I don't think my priest would tell me what to do in the situation of resisting the shooter (if I had the opportunity). He doesn't seem to be willing to condemn those who choose to defend themselves. He speaks in the first person ("I don't think that I can...") when talking about these issues.

What did Jesus say, though? He was pretty direct about telling his disciples what to do.

[Bootstrap]

My experience when I was part of an MC USA church was that young people enrolled in the Guard, families kept shotguns under their beds, and concealed carrying was a fad that picked up steam (myself, sadly, being one of them).

Wow. In the 30 years or so I was in Mennonite churches, I only saw hunting rifles. I'm not doubting your experiences, just saying that I've never seen anything like that. Then again, there are clearly MC-USA churches that are very different from the ones I was part of.

This is analogous to “conservative” Anabaptists who nonetheless are putting Republican presidential campaign bumper stickers on their cars, buying compact handguns with various excuses why they need them, and collecting rifles with a military style appearance.

Gack. I mean, it was bad enough when it was just Harrison Ford. But I'm guessing this is also a small minority.

Both are inconsistent with what I believe to be both New Testament and Anabaptist principles.

You can say that again.

[Bootstrap]

I am still dealing with everything and I would like to run some things by you. My priest is helping tremendously. Our talk yesterday was very fruitful. He pointed out my depression and made the point that a gun was a very quick way to make very bad decisions while depressed. He used himself as an example and said there were times that a gun would have made it too easy.

2/3 of gun deaths in America are suicides. I agree with your priest, if suicide is sometimes a temptation for you, the idea of a gun at home really scares me.

... access to the weapons alone seems to provide a negative, probably sinful atmosphere to my life. It most certainly did when I was suicidal. It does when I go through scenarios in which I plan on killing. Is this akin to looking on a woman with lust? I mean, I am thinking about scenarios as I train with the weapon. Am I giving that sin a place in my heart as I run it through my mind. If killing is a sin, then training is a premeditation. I am doing damage by entertaining that thought. Does that make sense?

Perfect sense. And I agree with you.

[LJones]

What did Jesus say, though? He was pretty direct about telling his disciples what to do.

See Josh, here is the thing. In the past couple of weeks I have gone from being an NRA "patriot" who advocates the owning of AR-15s to renouncing my NRA membership and selling (pending) my AR-15 because of personal convictions. I imagine that when it is all said and done that my convictions of non-violence will be much stronger than when I was a Conservative Anabaptist. Why?

Because I will have them because I love others, not because I fear God's, or the minister's, wrath. To me this is very important. I feel that this is the heart of the gospel, not some little green book that demands that I not kill people or wear shirts with bright colors. And I hope to goodness that when I am at the end of wherever this road leads that I have a bit more compassion for those on the journey than you do. You paint with a broad brush and your pedestal is so high that it's amazing that there's still enough oxygen for you to survive. Have you ever thought that in the midst of your disdain that your tithing of mint and cumin are a stench while we publicans wrestle with our souls at the back of your grand hall?

Please, you are not helping here. So, please lay off the insults to those unlike yourself and let me ask questions without fear of your reprisal.

[Peregrino]

I imagine that when it is all said and done that my convictions of non-violence will be much stronger than when I was a Conservative Anabaptist. Why?

Because I will have them because I love others, not because I fear God's, or the minister's, wrath. To me this is very important. I feel that this is the heart of the gospel, not some little green book that demands that I not kill people or wear shirts with bright colors. And I hope to goodness that when I am at the end of wherever this road leads that I have a bit more compassion for those on the journey than you do. You paint with a broad brush and your pedestal is so high that it's amazing that there's still enough oxygen for you to survive. Have you ever thought that in the midst of your disdain that your tithing of mint and cumin are a stench while we publicans wrestle with our souls at the back of your grand hall?

LJones, this is powerful. Thank you so much for this thread. You are teaching me how to communicate simply and openly and "lay it all out". My own journey parallels yours in some ways although conservative anabaptism is my ethnicity and I will possibly never be able to step away from it as cleanly as you have. I just want you to know this thread is a real inspiration to me. Thank you!

[MaxPC]

What did Jesus say, though? He was pretty direct about telling his disciples what to do.

See Josh, here is the thing. In the past couple of weeks I have gone from being an NRA "patriot" who advocates the owning of AR-15s to renouncing my NRA membership and selling (pending) my AR-15 because of personal convictions. I imagine that when it is all said and done that my convictions of non-violence will be much stronger than when I was a Conservative Anabaptist. Why?

Because I will have them because I love others, not because I fear God's, or the minister's, wrath. To me this is very important. I feel that this is the heart of the gospel, not some little green book that demands that I not kill people or wear shirts with bright colors. And I hope to goodness that when I am at the end of wherever this road leads that I have a bit more compassion for those on the journey than you do. You paint with a broad brush and your pedestal is so high that it's amazing that there's still enough oxygen for you to survive. Have you ever thought that in the midst of your disdain that your tithing of mint and cumin are a stench while we publicans wrestle with our souls at the back of your grand hall?

Please, you are not helping here. So, please lay off the insults to those unlike yourself and let me ask questions without fear of your reprisal.

Amen and amen, LJones. Well said. I also like the fact that your thread focuses upon non-resistance which is a heart issue for disciples. You didn't turn it into another political rant.

I believe that for each person who seeks to be a faithful disciple of Christ, the heart issues are the most important. Heart issues are the only battlefield worth fighting on against satan. Each person has to fight his own battle of the heart and let God through the barrier of pain, pride and profligacy. You're right about sitting on high pedestals: the lack of oxygen at that height can damage the brain.

[Valerie]

Thank you for sharing this LJones- your honesty and sincere desire to know God's will is such a blessing to read- I was wondering, since you are seeking to know what to do (as a teacher) has your priest offered any advice on what you would do in a situation where you are put in a position of protecting the children in case someone armed shows up to do harm to them? Some direction that you would have peace about?

Well... I think that his position would be to do my very best to keep the kids safe. I realized the other day that my class would be taking my attention if something happened during the day. How could I leave them to go seek out a shooter? I think we get these grand scenarios in our heads where we are heroic and powerful. The truth is that we are neither. So, do the best you can. I don't think my priest would tell me what to do in the situation of resisting the shooter (if I had the opportunity). He doesn't seem to be willing to condemn those who choose to defend themselves. He speaks in the first person ("I don't think that I can...") when talking about these issues.

Thank you LJones, I think that people are 'brainstorming' presently to deal with this. Our local high school participated in the walk out the other day. Since some of my co-workers are mothers of students, they supported this because they feel the children want to see, and of course parents want to see, that their children can go to school without fearing a mass murderer situation- I realize these are rare in the big scheme of things- but there is fear & a certain expectation from parents & children that they should be safe in their school day. Bullying has been an issue forever- I remember children in school picking on a couple of kids in almost every class while I was growing up- I always stuck up for these children & befriended them- I am clueless if there were any thoughts in their minds of 'revenge' but certainly- we did not have the threat of violence then.

You mentioned 'power & heroism' in another post- actually I think this may be a gender difference. A female teacher wouldn't (at least I don't think so) be tempted with the power & heroism visions of grander as much as the instinct to protect. Again, one of the faculty and the FL shooting did put himself in front of students to keep THEM from being shot, and he was killed- of course his wife & child are now without a husband & father but it seems it was instinctive in him to protect the others.

So much needs addressed with all these- whether these are 'white' or 'black' issues or not- we all have our spiritual work cut out for us in making a difference, may the Lord guide you on a peaceful way of protecting the children, and I would assume every teacher who prays, will pray for God's protection daily in their classroom- most schools will probably never encounter this but real issues are being discussed- and hopefully eyes are being opened to the root causes of these things-
God bless you as you seek His will