Legalism?

General Christian Theology
MaxPC
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Re: Legalism?

Postby MaxPC » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:00 pm

Heirbyadoption wrote:
cmbl wrote:While I'm not a fan of how fractured Conservative Mennonitism and Conservative Anabaptism are, I think the differences between the groups are often more than just issues of technology, or disputable matters.

I can attest to the truth of this, at least in my experience. Our big bang in 2009 was ultimately more doctrinal than practical.

I'm sorry that you had to go through that. These things are never easy. I pray for all of the Anabaptists and for my friends in the OGBB.
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Joy
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Re: Legalism?

Postby Joy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:43 pm

Josh wrote:
This is not the unique domain of Anabaptists. The early church suffered many divisions, some of which persist to this day. In present times, various Baptist groups have spawned multitudes of denominations, which often did not mutually recognise one another as Christians.

Perhaps the work of One Body is Jesus’ work itself and no man can make it happen no matter how hard we try. Our domain is to be at peace with our close brethren. And isn’t that where all these disputations usually start?

If I could make comment on a couple of your remarks, Josh.

I've been associated with Baptists all my life, and I don't recall any of them ever calling another Baptist group non-Christian. And generally other groups only if they deny fundamentals of the faith according to Scripture, such as the deity of Christ, etc.

And the other thing is, I don't get from Jesus a sense of needing to be at peace with only our close brethren. We're family with all who belong to the Lord.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Legalism?

Postby KingdomBuilder » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:32 pm

Joy wrote:I've been associated with Baptists all my life, and I don't recall any of them ever calling another Baptist group non-Christian. And generally other groups only if they deny fundamentals of the faith according to Scripture, such as the deity of Christ, etc.


Coming from a SBC background, I can verify the same for my experience. In fact, the trend has really been homogenizing themselves with other denominations, not distinguishing.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Legalism?

Postby Bootstrap » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:36 am

KingdomBuilder wrote:
Joy wrote:I've been associated with Baptists all my life, and I don't recall any of them ever calling another Baptist group non-Christian. And generally other groups only if they deny fundamentals of the faith according to Scripture, such as the deity of Christ, etc.


Coming from a SBC background, I can verify the same for my experience. In fact, the trend has really been homogenizing themselves with other denominations, not distinguishing.


In a good way, focusing on what is really central to the Gospel. I have been struck by this at conferences where I interact with SBC scholars and by some of the blogs I read.
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Re: Legalism?

Postby Josh » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:30 am

Joy wrote:I've been associated with Baptists all my life, and I don't recall any of them ever calling another Baptist group non-Christian. And generally other groups only if they deny fundamentals of the faith according to Scripture, such as the deity of Christ, etc.


Joy, there is a multitude of splits of Baptist denominations, many of which in times past had divisions so deep they stopped recognising one another. Particular Baptist, Primitive Baptists, Two-Seed-In-The-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (KJV Only) who affiliated with Bob Jones, independent fundamentalist Baptists who do not affiliate with Bob Jones, and so forth.

And the other thing is, I don't get from Jesus a sense of needing to be at peace with only our close brethren. We're family with all who belong to the Lord.


I'm not at peace with people who think you can shoot your enemies instead of loving them. Of course, I do what I can to avoid sowing discord and inflaming conflict, but at the end of the day, Anabaptists are entirely different from Baptists.
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CADude
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Re: Legalism?

Postby CADude » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:37 am

Maybe at some point we have to define what it means to be "at peace" with someone. In one sense, I figure if we don't have ongoing conflict and strife between me and another person, then I am at peace with that person. I may not agree with their beliefs or the way they live their life.

Romans 12:18 "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."

That verse seems to indicate that it's not always possible. My own personal opinion on what that means though is that while I might live peaceably with some other person, that person may strive (attempt to fight) with me, which is something I have no control over.
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MaxPC
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Re: Legalism?

Postby MaxPC » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:16 am

CADude wrote:Maybe at some point we have to define what it means to be "at peace" with someone. In one sense, I figure if we don't have ongoing conflict and strife between me and another person, then I am at peace with that person. I may not agree with their beliefs or the way they live their life.

Romans 12:18 "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."

That verse seems to indicate that it's not always possible. My own personal opinion on what that means though is that while I might live peaceably with some other person, that person may strive (attempt to fight) with me, which is something I have no control over.

Amen and amen. :up:
People who are always looking for a fight do exist. Whether it's a personality dysfunction, ego or some other cause, we do have not control over it. I've found it's best to look after my own behaviors and seek to do better than to fall into that kind of embattled state.
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Wade
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Re: Legalism?

Postby Wade » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:01 pm

Josh wrote:
Joy wrote:I've been associated with Baptists all my life, and I don't recall any of them ever calling another Baptist group non-Christian. And generally other groups only if they deny fundamentals of the faith according to Scripture, such as the deity of Christ, etc.


Joy, there is a multitude of splits of Baptist denominations, many of which in times past had divisions so deep they stopped recognising one another. Particular Baptist, Primitive Baptists, Two-Seed-In-The-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (KJV Only) who affiliated with Bob Jones, independent fundamentalist Baptists who do not affiliate with Bob Jones, and so forth.

And the other thing is, I don't get from Jesus a sense of needing to be at peace with only our close brethren. We're family with all who belong to the Lord.


I'm not at peace with people who think you can shoot your enemies instead of loving them. Of course, I do what I can to avoid sowing discord and inflaming conflict, but at the end of the day, Anabaptists are entirely different from Baptists.


Legalism builds walls because of generalizations rather than division because of truth.
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"when ye do well,and suffer for it,ye take it patiently,this is acceptable with God..Christ also suffered for us,leaving us an example,that ye should follow his steps:Who did no sin..when he suffered,he threatened not;but committed himself"

Heirbyadoption
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Re: Legalism?

Postby Heirbyadoption » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:29 pm

Wade wrote:
Josh wrote:
Joy wrote:I've been associated with Baptists all my life, and I don't recall any of them ever calling another Baptist group non-Christian. And generally other groups only if they deny fundamentals of the faith according to Scripture, such as the deity of Christ, etc.


Joy, there is a multitude of splits of Baptist denominations, many of which in times past had divisions so deep they stopped recognising one another. Particular Baptist, Primitive Baptists, Two-Seed-In-The-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (KJV Only) who affiliated with Bob Jones, independent fundamentalist Baptists who do not affiliate with Bob Jones, and so forth.

And the other thing is, I don't get from Jesus a sense of needing to be at peace with only our close brethren. We're family with all who belong to the Lord.


I'm not at peace with people who think you can shoot your enemies instead of loving them. Of course, I do what I can to avoid sowing discord and inflaming conflict, but at the end of the day, Anabaptists are entirely different from Baptists.


Legalism builds walls because of generalizations rather than division because of truth.

Wade, could you elaborate on that a little for us? Thanks.
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Wade
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Re: Legalism?

Postby Wade » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:31 pm

Heirbyadoption wrote:
Wade wrote:
Josh wrote:
Joy, there is a multitude of splits of Baptist denominations, many of which in times past had divisions so deep they stopped recognising one another. Particular Baptist, Primitive Baptists, Two-Seed-In-The-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (KJV Only) who affiliated with Bob Jones, independent fundamentalist Baptists who do not affiliate with Bob Jones, and so forth.



I'm not at peace with people who think you can shoot your enemies instead of loving them. Of course, I do what I can to avoid sowing discord and inflaming conflict, but at the end of the day, Anabaptists are entirely different from Baptists.


Legalism builds walls because of generalizations rather than division because of truth.

Wade, could you elaborate on that a little for us? Thanks.


I've seen so many assumptions in Christianity because of labels. As soon as one states they are Catholic, Protestant, Anabaptist, or any split off group out of these often it seems that preconceived notions are formed.

It's like a label comes with a stamp - that to me is legalistic.

Set apart from the world division that is apparent should exist because of Truth and not because we are trying to fit into a cultural mold conceived in our minds. And I am talking about more than outward appearance as I have seen big divisions within Plain Mennonite churches where everybody dressed the same. That division is not intended for the view of others, or caused by the letter of the law but rather hearts full of devotion to God lead by His spirit.



Just last week a man ask me about my faith. I said I am Christian. He stared at me blankly. Then with further probing I asked if he knew about Anabaptist's. He said, "So you are Baptist's?" I went on the explain some the defining differences during the reformation as best as I could and he exclaimed, "Those things are biblical!" Yet he has for years attended a Baptist church and never heard of these things or Anabaptist's....
So please remember that the majority of the world does not have ANY Anabaptist church to choose from to attend, never mind multiple different flavors to choose from... Maybe they are where they are because that is where God has them and really they are bearing a hard cross but find His grace sufficient because they trust Him and His ways and not labels.
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"when ye do well,and suffer for it,ye take it patiently,this is acceptable with God..Christ also suffered for us,leaving us an example,that ye should follow his steps:Who did no sin..when he suffered,he threatened not;but committed himself"


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