Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

General Christian Theology
Valerie
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Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby Valerie » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:26 am

Do you ever find yourself wishing that Jesus would speak so specifically, to your church, as He did through His angels to the 7 churches in Revelations 2 & 3? I often find myself really wishing to hear what He thinks, where He would make corrections, or where He would be pleased- I would think most of us have had these thoughts-

So I often turn to these chapters- for alignment & seeking Him regarding all things "Church"- (or some things at least)

In reading the Laodicea Church, the "Lukewarm Church" -

When Jesus says "I could wish that you were cold or hot" - why cold? Is it because there is more hope for a 'cold' church than for a lukewarm church?
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buckeyematt2
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Re: Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby buckeyematt2 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:21 pm

Valerie wrote:Do you ever find yourself wishing that Jesus would speak so specifically, to your church, as He did through His angels to the 7 churches in Revelations 2 & 3? I often find myself really wishing to hear what He thinks, where He would make corrections, or where He would be pleased- I would think most of us have had these thoughts-

So I often turn to these chapters- for alignment & seeking Him regarding all things "Church"- (or some things at least)

In reading the Laodicea Church, the "Lukewarm Church" -

When Jesus says "I could wish that you were cold or hot" - why cold? Is it because there is more hope for a 'cold' church than for a lukewarm church?


This doesn't mean spiritually "hot" as in "on fire for God", or "cold" as in dead, or the opposite of "on fire" for God. It is referring to whether one's spiritual condition "tastes good" to God. Food and drink has to be either hot or cold to taste good - lukewarm is usually not good. Iced coffee is good, and hot coffee is good, but room temperature coffee? Ugh.
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Let the rocks be kept silent for one more day
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Almighty, most holy God
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Hats Off
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Re: Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby Hats Off » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:26 pm

I always figured it meant that when we are hot, we are in line with God but when we are cold, we are far away. Being lukewarm is a bad state of disinterest where it is difficult to help. I assumed it meant that someone that is cold is easier to work with than the lukewarm. But I do like your explanation.
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RZehr
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Re: Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby RZehr » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:32 pm

I've always understood it to be a spiritual temperature as well.

What makes lukewarm distasteful? Potato chips and bread are good at room temperature because they were designed to be eaten at room temperature. We are designed to be "hot" for God.
Hot would correspond with good and cold with wicked or perhaps ignorant. Lukewarm would be someone that has been inoculated against God, or is coasting along, or is a backslider, which is disgusting to God.
While God isn't pleased with the cold either He may have more mercy or patience with them.
I'm not saying I have complete understanding, just sharing what I think.
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Re: Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby buckeyematt2 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:44 pm

There is another, cultural element that I overlooked, which is well explained in the following link, but the interpretation is similar to mine:
http://andyunedited.ivpress.com/2014/01 ... n_of_h.php

Often this is misinterpreted to mean that Jesus is tired of namby-pamby middle of the roaders. He would rather people be passionately against him or for him. This is ridiculous on two counts. First, Jesus simply does not want people to turn resolutely against him. He wants all to come to him and be saved.

Second, when Jesus refers to hot and cold water, he is drawing an analogy from the fact that Laodicea did not have a good water source. Instead, using Roman aqueducts, it received hot water from the north, from the city of Hierapolis, famous for its soothing and healing hot springs. Refreshing cold water came from the south, from Colossae, eleven miles away, from snow melt on the mountains. Unfortunately, by the time the hot water and the cold water got to Laodicea, both were lukewarm. As Richards and O'Brien say in Misreading Scripture Through Western Eyes, Jesus "wished his people were hot (like the salubrious waters of Hierapolis) or cold (like the refreshing waters of Colossae). Instead, their discipleship was unremarkable."
2 x
Let the rocks be kept silent for one more day
Let the whole world sing out, let the people say

Almighty, most holy God
Faithful through the ages
Almighty, most holy Lord
Glorious, almighty God

Valerie
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Re: Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby Valerie » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:38 pm

Hats Off wrote:I always figured it meant that when we are hot, we are in line with God but when we are cold, we are far away. Being lukewarm is a bad state of disinterest where it is difficult to help. I assumed it meant that someone that is cold is easier to work with than the lukewarm. But I do like your explanation.


This is similar to what I always thought too. Also that a 'cold' person would probably not be a Christian, and therefore they would not be a poor representation, or witness of/to Him to the watching world- where a lukewarm person wouldn't be a good witness, more harm than a cold person is what I was thinking.

It seemed more obvious to me why He wouldn't want lukewarm- and why He would want 'hot' but hadn't given a lot of thought to why He'd rather cold- than lukewarm. For some reason this really struck me this morning.
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Valerie
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Re: Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby Valerie » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:41 pm

RZehr wrote:I've always understood it to be a spiritual temperature as well.

What makes lukewarm distasteful? Potato chips and bread are good at room temperature because they were designed to be eaten at room temperature. We are designed to be "hot" for God.
Hot would correspond with good and cold with wicked or perhaps ignorant. Lukewarm would be someone that has been inoculated against God, or is coasting along, or is a backslider, which is disgusting to God.
While God isn't pleased with the cold either He may have more mercy or patience with them.
I'm not saying I have complete understanding, just sharing what I think.


Yes since the words were for the Church- having gotten into a lukewarm position and a strong admonition/warning from Jesus it would be really important to understand exactly what He means-

Can you imagine really getting His words addressed to us so specifically like this within our own church?
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Valerie
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Re: Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby Valerie » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:43 pm

buckeyematt2 wrote:There is another, cultural element that I overlooked, which is well explained in the following link, but the interpretation is similar to mine:
http://andyunedited.ivpress.com/2014/01 ... n_of_h.php

Often this is misinterpreted to mean that Jesus is tired of namby-pamby middle of the roaders. He would rather people be passionately against him or for him. This is ridiculous on two counts. First, Jesus simply does not want people to turn resolutely against him. He wants all to come to him and be saved.

Second, when Jesus refers to hot and cold water, he is drawing an analogy from the fact that Laodicea did not have a good water source. Instead, using Roman aqueducts, it received hot water from the north, from the city of Hierapolis, famous for its soothing and healing hot springs. Refreshing cold water came from the south, from Colossae, eleven miles away, from snow melt on the mountains. Unfortunately, by the time the hot water and the cold water got to Laodicea, both were lukewarm. As Richards and O'Brien say in Misreading Scripture Through Western Eyes, Jesus "wished his people were hot (like the salubrious waters of Hierapolis) or cold (like the refreshing waters of Colossae). Instead, their discipleship was unremarkable."


Interesting they added that element into it without us really knowing that situation- from that standpoint 'cold' as in 'refreshing' would be good- I assumed cold meant more like an unbeliever.
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Valerie
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Re: Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby Valerie » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:44 pm

buckeyematt2 wrote:
Valerie wrote:Do you ever find yourself wishing that Jesus would speak so specifically, to your church, as He did through His angels to the 7 churches in Revelations 2 & 3? I often find myself really wishing to hear what He thinks, where He would make corrections, or where He would be pleased- I would think most of us have had these thoughts-

So I often turn to these chapters- for alignment & seeking Him regarding all things "Church"- (or some things at least)

In reading the Laodicea Church, the "Lukewarm Church" -

When Jesus says "I could wish that you were cold or hot" - why cold? Is it because there is more hope for a 'cold' church than for a lukewarm church?


This doesn't mean spiritually "hot" as in "on fire for God", or "cold" as in dead, or the opposite of "on fire" for God. It is referring to whether one's spiritual condition "tastes good" to God. Food and drink has to be either hot or cold to taste good - lukewarm is usually not good. Iced coffee is good, and hot coffee is good, but room temperature coffee? Ugh.


When put that way, cold being good is understandable-thanks-
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RZehr
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Re: Revelations 3-Cold or Hot or Lukewarm?

Postby RZehr » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:26 pm

Valerie wrote:Can you imagine really getting His words addressed to us so specifically like this within our own church?


Scary thought.....
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