JimFoxvog wrote:Yes the final outcome is up to God.
"THE EARTH SHALL LAST FOREVER" image sure isn't conclusive about the earth lasting forever, is it?
The Hebrews 1 passage and Isaiah 51 says it shall perish. Ephesians 3.21 (KJV) uses the idiom "world without end", which is not a literal translation. It is more literally translated "age after age", that is forever -- not referring to the earth at all.
Isaiah 45 "world without end" is more literally "unto sons of future", meaning forever again, again with no reference to the earth.
I'm not sure how much we can use the poetic Psalms for doctrine about the future. But Psalm 78.68-69 likens the sanctuary to the earth. "And He chooseth the tribe of Judah, With mount Zion that He loved, and buildeth His sanctuary as a high place, Like the earth, He founded it to the age." (Young's Literal Translation) The sanctuary on mount Zion didn't last forever. An "age" seems a better translation. Psalm 93.1 has a phrase about the world cannot be moved. The word for "world" has a number of meanings in Hebrew, as it does for Planet Earth. As we know the planet earth is moved by gravitational forces, I doubt this is about the planet.
It is a privilege to discuss this with you Jim. You are one of the first to even consider the actual context and literal translations of these passages without just dismissing the whole concept. I agree that the "world without end" is better "to the age, etc"
However, you did touch on another subject hidden in there in referring to the Old Covenant people/ system in terms of creation. Please compare Heb 1:10-12 with Heb 8:13
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
compare:
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
In both contexts it is referring to the same thing, the Old Covenant (OC). The whole point of the book of Hebrews is to point to the everlasting nature of the New Covenant (NC) with the temporary nature of the OC, the superiority of the NC over the OC.
Is 51 is also filled with metaphor of the OC vs NC and in particular refers to the OC people/system as being the heavens and the earth:
Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
YHWH clearly links his OC people with his creation in metaphor, referring to their very creation as a people is of the same import. I don't believe this verse is speaking of the natural creation at all, especially in the light of the passages that quote in the book of Hebrews.
In like manner, when the NT uses the phrases "new heavens and new earth" it is in reference to the New Covenant that was about to come into full revelation.
That the OC and the NC existed side by side for a period of time is evident, again especially in the book of Hebrews.
I hope you don't discount all of the Psalms as being foundation for doctrine. Much of what the church believes concerning fulfilled prophecy in the first coming comes from the Psalms...
Think about it.
