Vaccines and the Mark of the Beast

[silentreader]

Couple of interesting things about The Revelation, it draws to a close with this warning:

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

I'm not sure if that is something one would expect being said about an allegory? Or is that statement allegory as well?

The other statement is at the beginning of the "weird" part:

After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne. 3 And he who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian, and around the throne was a rainbow that had the appearance of an emerald.

I have a tendency to believe that John was seeing a spiritual reality for which he did not have the language to describe in temporal terms. An allegory? Maybe some passages, but evidently "real" enough in other ways to warrant a stern warning at the end.

[mennonitemom1]

The vaccine is personally the mark of the beast for me. Anything that requires you to disobey God is a mark of allegiance to the beast and Satan.

I've heard reports from Belize that it is being pushed (not sure if it was actually implemented) that you could not buy or sell after the 1st of October unless you had received the vaccine. This is a report from someone who lives there. Canada has made some significant challenges to the church and has become very hostile to them in some provinces. When is the last time a church in Australia legally had service? my sister is confined to a 5km radius for official reasons only and major fines are being put out. When you can't work, it doesn't matter if you buying and selling isn't banned for unvaccinated.

Right hand and the forehead are the thoughts and actions.

Yep, I agree…

[Josh]

It’s interesting to watch the path of liberalism: “how do we actually know Genesis is true?”

The book of Genesis tells us about a serpent who asked Eve, “Did God really mean what he said? Listen to me instead, and I will make you wise.”

The modern-day liberal continues to heed the serpent, and thinks not believing God’s word makes them wise.

[Wade]

Wouldn't the devil be "giving it away" if he made it that obvious??

In the Revelation, it sure looks like it's going to be obvious, a conscious decision to declare loyalty to either The Beast or to Jesus Christ.

Anything that looks like, "oops, I had no idea this was choosing the Mark of the Beast" just doesn't meet the Scriptural test as I read it. There's no hint of anyone being tricked into accepting the Mark of the Beast or being surprised they had done so.

Making people not able to buy or sell unless they consent to a drug that is developed with the use of murdered babies tissues is obviously wrong. Your right that it will be obvious but like when Christ came it is that too many are blind to see.

[Szdfan]

Oh, I agree. I just see no more textual evidence that the author of Revelations was speaking in allegory and the author of Genesis was not. And I'm merely commenting on the fact that we are willing to stretch the language of Revelations beyond belief to incorporate modern events and modern science like vaccines and barcodes or whatever and hand-wave away the actual presence of an actual beast. But for Genesis we are not.

When I was in seminary, we were taught that apocalyptic literature as a genre was allegorical. That also doesn’t mean that we were to use Revelation to interpret modern day events.

Yes, and when I was in college I was also taught that creation myths and epic poetry were, as a genre, allegorical as well. Whether you are talking about Homer's Odyssey and Illiad, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Aeneid, Beowulf, or Genesis and Exodus. That we read them to gain fundamental truths about the human experience and to understand from where we come. Not for a detailed inerrant historical narrative of specific Bronze Age events.

I fully understand the traditions. But what actual textual evidence do we have to indicate that Revelations is to be read allegorically and Genesis is not?

You mean some sort of textual flag where the author says, “THIS IS AN ALLEGORY!!!” Well, no. How much good writing today do you encounter that explicitly tells you how you’re supposed to interpret it? Plato’s allegory of the cave is obviously allegory, but nowhere in the text itself does it explicitly announce that it’s an allegory.

This is where understanding literary criticism and genre is helpful.

I also suspect that trying to divide the Bible between what is supposed to be taken literally and what’s allegory is a modern project and not an ancient one.

[Ken]

You mean some sort of textual flag where the author says, “THIS IS AN ALLEGORY!!!” Well, no. How much good writing today do you encounter that explicitly tells you how you’re supposed to interpret it? Plato’s allegory of the cave is obviously allegory, but nowhere in the text itself does it explicitly announce that it’s an allegory.

This is where understanding literary criticism and genre is helpful.

Which is kind of my point. If we are going to rely on an understanding of literary criticism, genre, historical analysis, etc. to inform us about Revelations (as opposed to reading the text literally), why do we not do the same thing with Genesis and Exodus?

[Szdfan]

You mean some sort of textual flag where the author says, “THIS IS AN ALLEGORY!!!” Well, no. How much good writing today do you encounter that explicitly tells you how you’re supposed to interpret it? Plato’s allegory of the cave is obviously allegory, but nowhere in the text itself does it explicitly announce that it’s an allegory.

This is where understanding literary criticism and genre is helpful.

Which is kind of my point. If we are going to rely on an understanding of literary criticism, genre, historical analysis, etc. to inform us about Revelations (as opposed to reading the text literally), why do we not do the same thing with Genesis and Exodus?

Well, we should. One of my issues with a "literal" interpretation of Genesis is that it ignores the ancient Near-East cosmology that's clearly evident in Genesis 1 and tries to shoehorn it with our contemporary cosmology -- i.e. the earth is not a bowl in an ocean of chaos under a dome.

[Bootstrap]

You mean some sort of textual flag where the author says, “THIS IS AN ALLEGORY!!!” Well, no. How much good writing today do you encounter that explicitly tells you how you’re supposed to interpret it? Plato’s allegory of the cave is obviously allegory, but nowhere in the text itself does it explicitly announce that it’s an allegory.

This is where understanding literary criticism and genre is helpful.

Which is kind of my point. If we are going to rely on an understanding of literary criticism, genre, historical analysis, etc. to inform us about Revelations (as opposed to reading the text literally), why do we not do the same thing with Genesis and Exodus?

Well, we should. One of my issues with a "literal" interpretation of Genesis is that it ignores the ancient Near-East cosmology that's clearly evident in Genesis 1 and tries to shoehorn it with our contemporary cosmology -- i.e. the earth is not a bowl in an ocean of chaos under a dome.

I'm not sure "bowl" describes the Near-East understanding, but I get your point.

Similarly, I don't think "allegory" is the right way to describe types or figures (in the sense of figural interpretation). Yes, types and figures are used in allegories, but it goes beyond that.

[Bootstrap]

It’s interesting to watch the path of liberalism: “how do we actually know Genesis is true?”

The book of Genesis tells us about a serpent who asked Eve, “Did God really mean what he said? Listen to me instead, and I will make you wise.”

The modern-day liberal continues to heed the serpent, and thinks not believing God’s word makes them wise.

Sure.

But for vaccines, we do not have specific instruction from God. That's very different from Genesis, where God did, in fact, give clear instructions to Adam and Eve.

[Bootstrap]

[Making people not able to buy or sell unless they consent to a drug that is developed with the use of murdered babies tissues is obviously wrong. Your right that it will be obvious but like when Christ came it is that too many are blind to see.

Is anyone unable to buy and sell if they do not get vaccinated?

Around here, you might need to wear a mask or have them deliver groceries or have them assemble groceries so you can pick them up. You might order some things from Amazon if you won't wear a mask. But people seem to be finding ways to allow anyone to buy and sell.