Hooch, Booze, etc.

[haithabu]

The Passover meal for Jews today is served with wine and there is no reason to believe that it was any different in Jesus' time.

Wine is also appropriate to the symbolism of the Passover meal because according to Numbers 15:5 the sacrifice of every lamb must be accompanied by a drink offering of wine.

[Josh]

I don’t drink and avoid alcohol and am blessed to be in a church that does the same.

With that said, I doubt the veracity of the following statements:

“Do not be a grape juice bibber”

“One not given to much grape juice”

“Normally the host saves the best grape juice for when the guests are already drunk”

“Do not be drunk with grape juice”

[Sudsy]

And Jesus did indulge in wine at what is known as the last supper.

What translation do you have that states that wine was used at the last supper? Most of the ones I've looked at use "cup" and "fruit of the vine". I'm not disputing that wine was used - just asking if we can be certain from scripture that it was.

NLT. I think the time of year is a good argument that it couldn't be grape juice. But true, other translations use the figure of speech 'fruit of the vine'.

[Wade]

I grew up in a home with continual heavy drinking, where yelling, fighting, holes punched in walls, and physical abuse happened.

My wife has been pregnant or breastfeeding for 12 years and when I did drink it never felt right that she couldn't while I did.

There is enough scripture on the subject that leads me to believe that it isn't really encourage by scripture. John the Baptist was so full of the Spirit so he never had strong drink. Ephesians 5 is worded such that it seems drinking diminishes the Holy Spirit's influence on our lives. Proverbs 31 about alcohol being for the perishing but yet Christ refused the alcohol on the way to the Calvary and had vinegar instead... And more.

And now my new neighbor/co-worker who just committed himself to the Lord and enjoys spiritual conversations as well as wanting to get to together for Bible studies is a AA member.

I am not bothered by those who drink alcohol for the Lord's supper. And even other times as long as we can understand what point God sees us as a drunkard, because the scriptures are clear that a drunkard will not inherit the kingdom.

All my desire to drink alcohol is gone and not drinking is a great opportunity to serve others and set priorities on better things, but I realize my background of never seeing anything good come from drinking has an influence on this mindset too.

[Valerie]

I would enjoy some wine and could be convinced that it might be good medicine in certain circumstances but because of all the harm it has caused I will avoid it.

There are folks who apply this to using the internet as well, because of all the harm it can cause- what are some of those things?
Poronography
Internet Gambling
Adulterous relationships forming
Addiction to being on the internet taking away family time

It seems that we can recognize the harm in many things that we are okay with ourselves while realizing the problems that they have caused in other lives- I have seen internet use destroy families in the ministry I served in- in the direction it took some people. Would that mean because it has caused harm in some peoples lives, that we as Christians should avoid it as well?

[cmbl]

Would that mean because it has caused harm in some peoples lives, that we as Christians should avoid it as well?

Who's "we?" Most of the posters in this forum are in different fellowships. That said, some CA fellowships have rules like filtered internet, no internet on cell phones, etc. And some CA's apply more restrictive rules to themselves than those "required" by their fellowships. In short, yes, avoiding or limiting Internet can be something good for Christians.

[cmbl]

I am not bothered by those who drink alcohol for the Lord's supper. And even other times as long as we can understand what point God sees us as a drunkard, because the scriptures are clear that a drunkard will not inherit the kingdom.

All my desire to drink alcohol is gone and not drinking is a great opportunity to serve others and set priorities on better things, but I realize my background of never seeing anything good come from drinking has an influence on this mindset too.

For what it's worth, my background is opposite to yours: my father would occasionally have a glass of wine or beer with his father, and I never saw either of them drunk. Yet I come out to the same place - I don't think it's wrong except in case of drunkenness, but I don't have a desire to drink, and the types of churches that I seek pretty much all seem to prohibit alcohol, a stance I'm fine with.

I also agree with Josh's post.

[Hats Off]

I would enjoy some wine and could be convinced that it might be good medicine in certain circumstances but because of all the harm it has caused I will avoid it.

There are folks who apply this to using the internet as well, because of all the harm it can cause- what are some of those things?
Poronography
Internet Gambling
Adulterous relationships forming
Addiction to being on the internet taking away family time

It seems that we can recognize the harm in many things that we are okay with ourselves while realizing the problems that they have caused in other lives- I have seen internet use destroy families in the ministry I served in- in the direction it took some people. Would that mean because it has caused harm in some peoples lives, that we as Christians should avoid it as well?

Without the internet, I would need to seek another line of work which I am too old to do. I have been doing what I do for most of my life. My internet is filtered to the point that there are discussions here I can't follow. When the filter blocks work related things, I ask for a review. For me the difference between alcohol and the internet is that I can block the harmful parts of the internet and still use it for work; when I do the same thing with alcohol, I end up with fruit juice or a non-alcohol drink which I am fine with as well.

[Valerie]

I would enjoy some wine and could be convinced that it might be good medicine in certain circumstances but because of all the harm it has caused I will avoid it.

There are folks who apply this to using the internet as well, because of all the harm it can cause- what are some of those things?
Poronography
Internet Gambling
Adulterous relationships forming
Addiction to being on the internet taking away family time

It seems that we can recognize the harm in many things that we are okay with ourselves while realizing the problems that they have caused in other lives- I have seen internet use destroy families in the ministry I served in- in the direction it took some people. Would that mean because it has caused harm in some peoples lives, that we as Christians should avoid it as well?

Without the internet, I would need to seek another line of work which I am too old to do. I have been doing what I do for most of my life. My internet is filtered to the point that there are discussions here I can't follow. When the filter blocks work related things, I ask for a review. For me the difference between alcohol and the internet is that I can block the harmful parts of the internet and still use it for work; when I do the same thing with alcohol, I end up with fruit juice or a non-alcohol drink which I am fine with as well.

Good points for sure- but that is you- I appreciate people's decision to abstain, but I do know that Jesus nor His Apostles did abstain- I can appreciate both sides of the decisions for those who follow Christ & their own reasons either way. I'm just saying that those who use the justification for promoting abstainance from alcohol because of what it does to 'some' need to realize too that if we apply that logic, the internet destroys lives/families too as I have seen happen. In the ministry I was involved in for addicts, we even counseled a man to get rid of the internet altogether. He did not NEED it in his home (much like Jesus saying to cut off your hand or pluck out your eye, if they cause you to sin, sometimes 'drastic' measures are needed) but they chose to try to control themselves & being weak, well- the family ended up falling apart- the wife also ended up in sin due to her internet choices so it all fell apart.
I am glad they put those software filters in place, but many think they control themselves, like many do with alcohol. But they are too weak.

[Josh]

Should a Christian abstain from drugs? Some of them are less harmful than alcohol and are now legal too.