"Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Ernie
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Ernie »

Heirbyadoption wrote:I'd be interested to know if you have applied such a process among your congregation yet, and how its working out.
We've started 6 months ago. So far it is a success. (1 person) :)
Heirbyadoption wrote: You're probably already aware of this, but we actually have a congregation discussing implementing such a "tiered-membership" process; it will be interesting to see where they go with it.
No. I was not aware. You can PM me.
Heirbyadoption wrote:And I guess I'll go back and read your articles again, but the process of discerning who is strong and weak and basing their involvement or responsibilities upon that discernment seems a bit of a potentially sticky subject.
Quite sticky! This is not for the faint of heart. :)

If you PM me your email address, I will send you the list of qualifications we came up with for "recognized teachers" in our church and how a person can go about applying for this role.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
GaryK
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by GaryK »

Ernie wrote: If you PM me your email address, I will send you the list of qualifications we came up with for "recognized teachers" in our church and how a person can go about applying for this role.
Can you send it to me as well? We are working toward something similar right now as well.
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joshuabgood
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by joshuabgood »

Why not make it public Ernie? And post the list here...?
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Josh
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Josh »

What safeguards are there to ensure the top tiers are not essentially accessible only to ethnic Anabaptists?

One benefit to us seekers becoming members is once we are in, we’re in. We don’t have to jump through yet more hoops to be considered to teach Sunday school, be married, be ordained, go do missions etc
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Hats Off
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Hats Off »

In the plain churches that I am familiar with, there are a number of non-ethnic Swiss names among leadership. This is the case in Orthodox Mennonite to Conservative Mennonites, in Ontario and the US. If you become a member of one of these churches, you are equal to everyone else.
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Martin
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Martin »

Ernie wrote: We've started 6 months ago. So far it is a success. (1 person) :)
This guinea pig has my sympathies.
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Josh
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Josh »

Hats Off wrote:In the plain churches that I am familiar with, there are a number of non-ethnic Swiss names among leadership. This is the case in Orthodox Mennonite to Conservative Mennonites, in Ontario and the US. If you become a member of one of these churches, you are equal to everyone else.
Yes - that’s the benefit of a single tier of membership.

Once there are multiple tiers, it will be hard for any of us seekers who aren’t perfect to ever “make it”.
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Sudsy
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Sudsy »

Thanks Ernie. I read your article and found it quite interesting. Someone once said they dreamed that upon entering heaven they noticed a small group of folks staying quite apart from the rest and they asked who they were. The answer was that they were a group who thought they were 'the remnant' and they were quite 'put out' that God had allowed such a group that no man could number into His heaven. Folks they would never break bread with when on earth.

Imo, if any 'Order' or whatever it may be called is mainly focused on their uniform way of being the church and are not doing what Jesus did (going to where the lost and hurting are to save them from their sins) then whatever form of practise a group creates has missed the main point of being a Jesus follower. And when He left He sent us the Holy Spirit to guide us and empower us to not let sin rule anymore in our bodies and to be bold in sharing the Gospel.

Is it mainly about developing standard church expectations of one another to be part of our group and finding a way to develop those expectations to reach a mature local church ? Or is that the work of the Holy Spirit who works in individual lives to bring about a sanctification that God is pleased with ? It often sounds to me like the Holy Spirit is left out of what only He can achieve. Yes, He uses us as means to spur each other on but I have trouble with the extent that some take their involvement and to me, we could easily be interfering with His work and in His timing.

Unless Anabaptists, in general, do not take on more of an evangelical mindset like Jesus had, then I doubt it will ever make much of a contribution to the number spoken of here -

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Imo, we don't need more accommodating ways of doing church as much as we need to see the demonstration of the power of God reaching out and transforming lives that continue to grow in grace as they in turn reach out to this lost and dying world. If my MB church did not have that focus, I would soon be back in some group of Evangelicals who did.

I suppose this description of 'church' would be considered an 'Evangelical Order' within Anabaptism if I got your article right and I should accept other 'Orders' as they chose to follow Christ. Right ?
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Valerie
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Valerie »

In this parable, who would be in the Remnant?

Luke 18:
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

It seems the potential for becoming more like the Pharisee instead of the 'justified' tax collector should be kept in mind?
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Ernie
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Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Ernie »

Sudsy wrote:I suppose this description of 'church' would be considered an 'Evangelical Order' within Anabaptism if I got your article right and I should accept other 'Orders' as they chose to follow Christ. Right ?
Not sure I understand the question.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
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