"Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Ernie
Posts: 5447
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Ernie »

joshuabgood wrote:Why not make it public Ernie? And post the list here...?
Various things could be misinterpreted without understanding the context. There is nothing to hide. Any of the brothers in our church who have been involved from the beginning could explain it to you if you visited our community.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
joshuabgood
Posts: 2815
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:23 pm
Affiliation: BMA

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by joshuabgood »

Ernie wrote:
joshuabgood wrote:Why not make it public Ernie? And post the list here...?
Various things could be misinterpreted without understanding the context. There is nothing to hide. Any of the brothers in our church who have been involved from the beginning could explain it to you if you visited our community.
Ok. I think the important thing is that if it is being used in the brotherhood all the brothers should know about it...

Josh
0 x
MaxPC
Posts: 9044
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Former full time RVers
Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
Contact:

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by MaxPC »

In both Heir's and this thread, I have a query for Ernie and Heir:
How do you see the following Scripture being implemented in a Rule of Life or Voluntary Christian Order? Is it one of the foundational Scriptures for these concepts?

[bible]Acts 4, 32-37[/bible]
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Sudsy
Posts: 5859
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Sudsy »

Ernie wrote:
Sudsy wrote:I suppose this description of 'church' would be considered an 'Evangelical Order' within Anabaptism if I got your article right and I should accept other 'Orders' as they chose to follow Christ. Right ?
Not sure I understand the question.
I was taking from what you wrote that since there are varying ways of orthopraxy within Anabaptism, it would be better to accept these more as 'Orders' (choices of a group in how they chose to follow Jesus) and not consider our own group as 'the Remanent' who are following Jesus correctly or closest. We have at least 2 groups of Mennonites in our area that have a strong focus on evangelism trying to reach the unchurched where the others don't and basically stay within their own ethnic group. So, I thought these 2 would be considered an 'Order' different from other Mennonite Orders and none of us would think of ourselves a remanent within Anabaptism.

Perhaps I mis-understood.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Ernie
Posts: 5447
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Ernie »

Sudsy wrote:
Ernie wrote:
Sudsy wrote:I suppose this description of 'church' would be considered an 'Evangelical Order' within Anabaptism if I got your article right and I should accept other 'Orders' as they chose to follow Christ. Right ?
Not sure I understand the question.
I was taking from what you wrote that since there are varying ways of orthopraxy within Anabaptism, it would be better to accept these more as 'Orders' (choices of a group in how they chose to follow Jesus) and not consider our own group as 'the Remanent' who are following Jesus correctly or closest. We have at least 2 groups of Mennonites in our area that have a strong focus on evangelism trying to reach the unchurched where the others don't and basically stay within their own ethnic group. So, I thought these 2 would be considered an 'Order' different from other Mennonite Orders and none of us would think of ourselves a remanent within Anabaptism.

Perhaps I mis-understood.
You understood me correctly. Some Anabaptists want to be urban and vocally evangelistic. Some other Anabaptists want to be rural and incarnationally evangelistic. And there are other flavors as well. I think the different flavors have their place in the Kingdom of God and we should all be looking for ways to bring God's Kingdom to earth. No need for the rural people to lift their chins at the urban folks and no need for the urban folks to imply that unless you move to the city, you've missed your calling.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
Ernie
Posts: 5447
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Ernie »

MaxPC wrote:In both Heir's and this thread, I have a query for Ernie and Heir:
How do you see the following Scripture being implemented in a Rule of Life or Voluntary Christian Order? Is it one of the foundational Scriptures for these concepts?

[bible]Acts 4, 32-37[/bible]
Yes. As you will see in my signature, I think mutual aid is a necessary aspect of following Jesus. Each different Order will accomplish/apply the principles of this descriptive story in Acts, in different ways.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
MaxPC
Posts: 9044
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Former full time RVers
Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
Contact:

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by MaxPC »

Ernie wrote:
MaxPC wrote:In both Heir's and this thread, I have a query for Ernie and Heir:
How do you see the following Scripture being implemented in a Rule of Life or Voluntary Christian Order? Is it one of the foundational Scriptures for these concepts?

[bible]Acts 4, 32-37[/bible]
Yes. As you will see in my signature, I think mutual aid is a necessary aspect of following Jesus. Each different Order will accomplish/apply the principles of this descriptive story in Acts, in different ways.
:up:
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Hats Off
Posts: 2532
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:42 pm
Affiliation: Plain Menno OO

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Hats Off »

Sudsy wrote:Thanks Ernie. I read your article and found it quite interesting. Someone once said they dreamed that upon entering heaven they noticed a small group of folks staying quite apart from the rest and they asked who they were. The answer was that they were a group who thought they were 'the remnant' and they were quite 'put out' that God had allowed such a group that no man could number into His heaven. Folks they would never break bread with when on earth.

Imo, if any 'Order' or whatever it may be called is mainly focused on their uniform way of being the church and are not doing what Jesus did (going to where the lost and hurting are to save them from their sins) then whatever form of practise a group creates has missed the main point of being a Jesus follower. And when He left He sent us the Holy Spirit to guide us and empower us to not let sin rule anymore in our bodies and to be bold in sharing the Gospel.

Is it mainly about developing standard church expectations of one another to be part of our group and finding a way to develop those expectations to reach a mature local church ? Or is that the work of the Holy Spirit who works in individual lives to bring about a sanctification that God is pleased with ? It often sounds to me like the Holy Spirit is left out of what only He can achieve. Yes, He uses us as means to spur each other on but I have trouble with the extent that some take their involvement and to me, we could easily be interfering with His work and in His timing.

Unless Anabaptists, in general, do not take on more of an evangelical mindset like Jesus had, then I doubt it will ever make much of a contribution to the number spoken of here -

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Imo, we don't need more accommodating ways of doing church as much as we need to see the demonstration of the power of God reaching out and transforming lives that continue to grow in grace as they in turn reach out to this lost and dying world. If my MB church did not have that focus, I would soon be back in some group of Evangelicals who did.

I suppose this description of 'church' would be considered an 'Evangelical Order' within Anabaptism if I got your article right and I should accept other 'Orders' as they chose to follow Christ. Right ?
Sudsy, in my opinion you are judging the plain Anabaptist groups with insufficient knowledge. There is a difference in how we think and in how we interpret the Holy Spirit's leading. Listening to the Holy Spirit is very important to plain Anabaptists. There is a difference in how we work. I relate the following not to brag but to explain the practical way in which we work.

Yesterday, my wife and I were with a group of plain Mennonites, as we started framing a house to replace one damaged in spring flooding. 5 men travelled 6 hours to be at the jobsite by 9:30, leaving again by 5:30 in hopes of being home by midnight. Four others besides us travelled the hour and a half, working util past dark to return home in the evening. 7 youth left their homes this morning at 2:30 to be at the jobsite by 8 am. They will spend the night sleeping on air mattresses in a corner of a community centre, then work a full day tomorrow before returning home again. The supervisor and his wife arrived on the job on Tuesday and are staying in a rented cottage until Friday. He will be back next week if we have volunteers and back again after New Years.

Kara is a mother of two little girls; her husband returned from a tour of duty in Afghanistan severely damaged by the trauma of war. He is no longer able to function as a husband and father or to financially support them. Kara bought her house less than a year before the flood. A previous home was destroyed by fire. A tree fell on her car this summer. She is making mortgage payments on a house that no longer exists and is paying rent as well. Without help, she was doomed to raising her children in subsidized housing - I don't know what that means in the USA, but in Canada, that is not where anyone chooses to raise their children. She could see no way out by herself.

Mennonite Disaster Service responded first in the spring to help gut flood ravaged basements; in mid summer MDS was involved in making repairs to homes where the home owners were, due to age or other circumstances, unable to help themselves. Now this winter we are rebuilding two homes that were condemned because of flood related issues.

MDS likes to use local Amish and Mennonite volunteers whenever possible to our church group was called upon to help organize volunteer efforts. My wife and I are involved in notifying other churches of the need for volunteers, both construction workers as well as cooks to feed the volunteers. Another one of our members has volunteered to supervise the rebuilding of these houses. We will call on volunteers from more than a dozen plain Amish and Mennonite groups to do the work, and they will come, even though MDS, Christian Aid Ministries, Storm Aid, Weaverland Disaster Relief, and others are also calling for volunteers to help with disaster relief work in warmer parts of North America. Numerous hours of volunteer labour are provided every year with some people spending a month or more on projects every year.

These volunteers do not respond because of the pay they receive although that is also huge. They go out of love, providing the labour to rebuild and repair homes but not only do the recipients receive homes, best of all they receive hope. They feel the acts of love in a way that no amount of evangelizing with words could accomplish. Our people do what we are good at - helping with our hands and management skills - the spiritual blessings flow to both the helpers and the helped. But there is more to it than just the work carried out by organizations like MDS.

On our project, we have a very active group of community association members with some very valuable skills who did the behind the scenes work to make our work possible. Some of us were interviewed by local and National media. A flooring contractor from the city was touched by the stories and is supplying and probably installing all the flooring in both our houses. He is reaching out to other building sub-trades in the city to also take part. We have believers working with unbelievers, a community of people reaching out to Kara and the other couple out of love. What an impact these plain Mennonite farmers and carpenters can have on an extended group of people as they quietly and inconspicuously go about doing what they do best.
0 x
ken_sylvania
Posts: 3975
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by ken_sylvania »

Hats Off wrote:These volunteers do not respond because of the pay they receive although that is also huge.
Is this what you meant to say?? :? :?
Not that I care if these volunteer workers get high wages, but that isn't a model I'm familiar with....
0 x
Hats Off
Posts: 2532
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:42 pm
Affiliation: Plain Menno OO

Re: "Voluntary Christian Order" or "The Remnant"

Post by Hats Off »

As volunteers they do not receive monetary remuneration but the payback in other ways can be huge. As a volunteer co-ordinator I get the thank yous for everyone.
0 x
Post Reply