Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Hats Off
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Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by Hats Off »

So how should we as Anabaptist Christians approach life in view of the perceived threat of Global Warming/Climate Change?
Wayne in Maine wrote:
GaryK wrote: Who determined that this is only a scientific subject?
Indeed. the whole subject has a lot of social and political implications. People have lost their jobs as a result of policies that forced coal mines to close, while others are making huge profits off of inefficient, government subsidized alternate energy schemes.
In another topic we have seen extensive discussion about the topic from a science point of view but as someone pointed out, this is not as important to us as it is to determine how we should respond. In what practical ways do you approach this?
I prefer driving economy vehicles - with lower fuel consumption.
We grow some of our own vegetables and try to buy locally as much as possible.
We eat our leftovers - we don't throw them out.
The list could go on but I also do other things that perhaps don't help the environment.
If I can buy clothes cheaper online from China, I will do so.
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lesterb
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Re: Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by lesterb »

After writing the post below, I thought I really should have put it here, so I'll copy it.
lesterb wrote:
Bootstrap wrote: People like John Cook are trying to dumb this down with simpler, black-and-white statements. That seems to be what popular culture prefers. Most people prefer a simple, vivid statement that requires no work to understand, so this often turns into a fight among Internet memes.
I don't know anything about John Cook, but I do react a bit to this idea that simple statements or generalizations are the result of "dumbing down" a subject. I find generalizations and simple statements to be very helpful in communication with people who don't have the time or the expertise to get into every detail. But it isn't a dumbing down process. It takes a lot of study and thinking to come up with good generalizations. You probably need to understand more about the subject to do that than to write the complex statements that fill this thread.

I remember about a decade ago when these things really started to hit the Mennonite circles and the grassroots of society. The debate then was whether or not global warming even exists. Back in the MD days, I remember sharing observations that I had made that made it evident that global warming did exist, but some people tried to insist that it didn't. Now that has shifted and I don't hear it anymore. Now the battle is centered on the cause of global warming. And most people recognize that human activity is at least partly to blame. The big question is, what percentage of it are we to blame for it? And what does stewardship ask us to do about it.

Again, my approach to the whole subject is somewhat different. I look at history and see the same processes at work a thousand years ago. The earth survived, and it appears that it was a natural process rather than a man-made one. Nature goes through cycles. We don't know enough about history to track it all, but we get enough glimpses to see that nature is pretty versatile. On top of this, I'm not surprised to see "the earth waxing old as a garment", since the Bible forecast that a long time ago. But that doesn't keep me from agreeing that we should do what we can.

But I know enough about computers and their problems to look at computer models with a bit of a cynical eye. And most of these scenarios we are talking about are based on computer models tied into statistics. But anyone acquainted with spreadsheet analysis knows who much that the programmer has to do with the outcome. It doesn't take much to tweak results.

Now the Lord may not return for another millennium or two. Or he may return today. But if He does wait a couple of thousand years, I predict that we are heading into another dark ages. If you look at history, you see those cycles going along with the natural cycles. I think we are pretty naive if we think that we can head off cycles that God seems to have reprogrammed into nature and human experience. We have gotten so used to being the masters of our destiny on earth that we think we can do anything.

Well I've got news for you. We can't. Read the last chapters of Job and you will get a glimpse of what God is thinking right now about discussions like this thread.

I had a call yesterday from a woman half a continent away. She has a baby with a serious heart condition. She was a backslidden Christian until a year or so ago, and she is horribly afraid that God is punishing her through her baby. I've talked with her several time over the past six months and tried to help her to find her rest in God. Yesterday, I think she finally got a bit closer to realizing that while God may be using her baby's condition to help her, he is not punishing her. She has been desperately trying to find a way to have her baby healed. But she is starting to see that she can find rest by accepting that God is a good God and what he allows is good for us, even if it seems hard.

I think we need to come to that kind of rest in this subject. Certainly that doesn't mean being careless or nonchalant. But I get the impression that Boot thinks that the whole fate of the world rests on his shoulders. And Robert seems to feel that he needs to somehow bring Boot around. And so they keep shooting past each other.

We won't solve this, because it isn't our problem to solve. Even if you got China and India on board, we wouldn't stop what seems to be a natural process. We might be able to moderate it a bit, but without killing two thirds of the world's population we won't even be able to do much of this. A good part of man's part in this is simply the overhead of life in general. If God tarries, this will pass too. Politicians will move on to the next great nonevent and people will start predicting an ice again when the world starts cooling on its own several centuries from now.

By then, I hope that we can all be discussing this in heaven and chuckling at our over reactions.

In the meantime, do your best to be a good stewart, avoid waste and over using natural resources. And tell people about Jesus, because that is more important than saving a doomed planet.
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Neto
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Re: Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by Neto »

Personally I got serious about taking care of our earth at the same time I got serious about following Christ Jesus. The Summer before eighth grade, 1969. I had started reading the Bible seriously, and walking down the pasture lane along the highway on the way to the church house for pre-baptismal classes, I started thinking that the only thing that was really going to make the earth safe from a simple thing like broken pop bottles along the road was the fire of destruction with which God had already promised to purify the earth. So this is where I think we can all do our part - recycle everything that can be reused. Repair things instead of throwing them out, if possible. If we have something that is simply no longer needed, donate it to a used goods store instead of sending it to the land-fill. Don't drive all over the place just because you can. (I'm talking about combining trips to the store, etc., not about vacation travel.)
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Wade
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Re: Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by Wade »

I know a Mennonite family with ten children. The father told me that a couple years ago was the first time he had ever earned a wage more than above poverty line here in Canada.
He made their house, furniture, farmstand, greenhouses, and etc. They make their own clothes and grow all their own food. If a dress or pants wear out then they can cut out the good parts for a smaller pair to fit a younger child. They make cloth diapers. They reuse the little amount of containers and etc. that they buy from what things they don't make themselves. They phone people in the church community including us when we lived there to buy together things in bulk to avoid extra shipping, costs, and packaging. They fix old equipment to work the property for their farm. They don't have much anything materialistic or wasteful and are always resource conscience. Fuel efficient and reliable long lasting brands of vehicles is what they use. If they do travel they ask others if they can pick things up for them to save someone else the trip and vice versa. They simple do without many modern luxuries, but still have electricity coupled with honest hard work. They realize the cost of health and are very well versed from their reading about healthy living, to the point that this father actively started to pursue being a doctor, but quickly realized that it wouldn't fit with his lifestyle and priorities so stopped. They raise goats and sheep for milk and meat. Woodstove in the one greenhouse as I recall still being able to see what looked like tomato plants growing around Christmas time when they had us over for a healthy, hearty meal.
This family is extremely happy, healthy, hospitable, and a good example of stewardship and living in a simple sustainable manner.

Not all of us can do this but we can buy locally, buy used and thrift store items, shop garage sales, live in modest homes, maintain well what we do have, and we could share more things all in common while living closer in Christian community.
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by Josh »

Wade wrote:I know a Mennonite family with ten children. The father told me that a couple years ago was the first time he had ever earned a wage more than above poverty line here in Canada.
He made their house, furniture, farmstand, greenhouses, and etc. They make their own clothes and grow all their own food. If a dress or pants wear out then they can cut out the good parts for a smaller pair to fit a younger child. They make cloth diapers. They reuse the little amount of containers and etc. that they buy from what things they don't make themselves. They phone people in the church community including us when we lived there to buy together things in bulk to avoid extra shipping, costs, and packaging. They fix old equipment to work the property for their farm. They don't have much anything materialistic or wasteful and are always resource conscience. Fuel efficient and reliable long lasting brands of vehicles is what they use. If they do travel they ask others if they can pick things up for them to save someone else the trip and vice versa. They simple do without many modern luxuries, but still have electricity coupled with honest hard work. They realize the cost of health and are very well versed from their reading about healthy living, to the point that this father actively started to pursue being a doctor, but quickly realized that it wouldn't fit with his lifestyle and priorities so stopped. They raise goats and sheep for milk and meat. Woodstove in the one greenhouse as I recall still being able to see what looked like tomato plants growing around Christmas time when they had us over for a healthy, hearty meal.
This family is extremely happy, healthy, hospitable, and a good example of stewardship and living in a simple sustainable manner.

Not all of us can do this but we can buy locally, buy used and thrift store items, shop garage sales, live in modest homes, maintain well what we do have, and we could share more things all in common while living closer in Christian community.
This is a nice lifestyle, but it’s not the same as following Christ, and it really puts up barriers to people who want to be in the kingdom when they feel they have to live up to this lifestyle first.

I tried for a time to live a “simpler” lifestyle and I just ended up too broke and constantly a burden on others and a burden on my church. Now I work a complicated job, and my lifestyle sometimes can’t be simple. But I also am able to contribute in meaningful ways to church and to help others.
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Wade
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Re: Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by Wade »

Josh wrote:
Wade wrote:I know a Mennonite family with ten children. The father told me that a couple years ago was the first time he had ever earned a wage more than above poverty line here in Canada.
He made their house, furniture, farmstand, greenhouses, and etc. They make their own clothes and grow all their own food. If a dress or pants wear out then they can cut out the good parts for a smaller pair to fit a younger child. They make cloth diapers. They reuse the little amount of containers and etc. that they buy from what things they don't make themselves. They phone people in the church community including us when we lived there to buy together things in bulk to avoid extra shipping, costs, and packaging. They fix old equipment to work the property for their farm. They don't have much anything materialistic or wasteful and are always resource conscience. Fuel efficient and reliable long lasting brands of vehicles is what they use. If they do travel they ask others if they can pick things up for them to save someone else the trip and vice versa. They simple do without many modern luxuries, but still have electricity coupled with honest hard work. They realize the cost of health and are very well versed from their reading about healthy living, to the point that this father actively started to pursue being a doctor, but quickly realized that it wouldn't fit with his lifestyle and priorities so stopped. They raise goats and sheep for milk and meat. Woodstove in the one greenhouse as I recall still being able to see what looked like tomato plants growing around Christmas time when they had us over for a healthy, hearty meal.
This family is extremely happy, healthy, hospitable, and a good example of stewardship and living in a simple sustainable manner.

Not all of us can do this but we can buy locally, buy used and thrift store items, shop garage sales, live in modest homes, maintain well what we do have, and we could share more things all in common while living closer in Christian community.
This is a nice lifestyle, but it’s not the same as following Christ, and it really puts up barriers to people who want to be in the kingdom when they feel they have to live up to this lifestyle first.

I tried for a time to live a “simpler” lifestyle and I just ended up too broke and constantly a burden on others and a burden on my church. Now I work a complicated job, and my lifestyle sometimes can’t be simple. But I also am able to contribute in meaningful ways to church and to help others.
I'm not sure you understand "simpler" if you ended up broke? Or I am missing what your idea of simpler is?
You see I used to have huge debt and continued to move up in position and wage in my career. I kept on working hard and could acquire more and more things, while being driven by bills. Then after becoming a Christian it finally clicked that I didn't need to make more but I needed to spend less. I make more money now than I did then with a job that has less responsibility so I can focus more on His kingdom and not be as much of a consumer and be a giver.
A simpler life to me isn't living a certain lifestyle or trying to earn less but it should mean using resources wisely so that one can be a giver. It is more blessed to give than receive.
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by Josh »

Working as an unskilled labourer meant over half of my income went just to interest on debt repayments.

With my current career, I do spend quite a bit more than I did as a concrete worker. But I also make so much more I can actually pay debt off. By the grace of God nearly all of it is paid off this year. I may have 100% of it paid off when 2018 gets here.

My career does not allow me to live a simple life with canning, a garden, homesteading, etc. - although I do think I can build the kingdom by being a Christian witness to everyone I meet. At the same time, I do have to spend a bit more on my clothes, vehicle, phone and so forth in order to maintain the level of professionalism I need for my job. I think that’s okay.
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Wade
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Re: Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by Wade »

Josh wrote:Working as an unskilled labourer meant over half of my income went just to interest on debt repayments.

With my current career, I do spend quite a bit more than I did as a concrete worker. But I also make so much more I can actually pay debt off. By the grace of God nearly all of it is paid off this year. I may have 100% of it paid off when 2018 gets here.

My career does not allow me to live a simple life with canning, a garden, homesteading, etc. - although I do think I can build the kingdom by being a Christian witness to everyone I meet. At the same time, I do have to spend a bit more on my clothes, vehicle, phone and so forth in order to maintain the level of professionalism I need for my job. I think that’s okay.
Good for you Josh.
I can relate very much. Last night I was working on fixing a USNR Linear High Grader... A machine that X-rays, lasers, camera views, boards flying out of the planer at extremely high speeds to figure out length, width, grade, strength, and etc of boards. Complex isn't a big enough word for 15 computers to run just this one small machine at the workplace...
We are all called to something different and sometimes it isn't simple and is harder than we would like. But I believe we are to do mightily whatever we are giving to do.
Working hard equals better efficiency which ties into the OP.
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Valerie
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Re: Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by Valerie »

Wade wrote:I know a Mennonite family with ten children. The father told me that a couple years ago was the first time he had ever earned a wage more than above poverty line here in Canada.
He made their house, furniture, farmstand, greenhouses, and etc. They make their own clothes and grow all their own food. If a dress or pants wear out then they can cut out the good parts for a smaller pair to fit a younger child. They make cloth diapers. They reuse the little amount of containers and etc. that they buy from what things they don't make themselves. They phone people in the church community including us when we lived there to buy together things in bulk to avoid extra shipping, costs, and packaging. They fix old equipment to work the property for their farm. They don't have much anything materialistic or wasteful and are always resource conscience. Fuel efficient and reliable long lasting brands of vehicles is what they use. If they do travel they ask others if they can pick things up for them to save someone else the trip and vice versa. They simple do without many modern luxuries, but still have electricity coupled with honest hard work. They realize the cost of health and are very well versed from their reading about healthy living, to the point that this father actively started to pursue being a doctor, but quickly realized that it wouldn't fit with his lifestyle and priorities so stopped. They raise goats and sheep for milk and meat. Woodstove in the one greenhouse as I recall still being able to see what looked like tomato plants growing around Christmas time when they had us over for a healthy, hearty meal.
This family is extremely happy, healthy, hospitable, and a good example of stewardship and living in a simple sustainable manner.

Not all of us can do this but we can buy locally, buy used and thrift store items, shop garage sales, live in modest homes, maintain well what we do have, and we could share more things all in common while living closer in Christian community.
I appreciate you sharing ths- these are the kind of stories I must periodically read in addition to Scripture to remind myself how we should apply Scriptures that in the past I didn't really apply very well or realize I was ignoring. In fact at times when I'm tempted to do 'all things are lawful but not all things are beneficial' as a way of justifying spending in areas not 'necessary' it helps to know of people who sacrifice so much & have better priorities than 'stuff', appreciating all of God's provision. I think of so many people who say they have to 'wait' until they can afford to have children. Even then, as soon as they have 2, (because Lord only knows more than 2 are SO expensive, what with college educations to save for) they are caught up in the rat race to provide all that they feel they must have to keep those children happy.
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Re: Anabaptist approach to Global Warming/Climate Change

Post by Sudsy »

lesterb wrote: In the meantime, do your best to be a good stewart, avoid waste and over using natural resources. And tell people about Jesus, because that is more important than saving a doomed planet.
Although I can't be a 'good stewart' just a 'good Sudds' :) and should be a good steward, I think Lester hit the nail on the head regarding what is most important.

Imo, we spend way too much time on things that are of the world as we are just strangers passing through. We are ambassadors of another world, another Kingdom and our focus is to be on recruiting more citizens for that eternal Kingdom. This world, in whatever state it gets to, will still be replaced with a new one. Others should see our peace of mind as we trust in God and these things (politics and the like included) do not make us anxious. They may see us as being foolish not being concerned as they are but that is because they are blinded. They need to hear the Gospel to offer them the Light/Jesus so they too can have this peace beyond human understanding.
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