Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23825
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by Josh »

John Holdeman was particularly fascinated by early Anabaptist writers, and most of the ones he could get his hands on were Dutch Anabaptist writers like Philips and Simons. (He also liked Swiss writers like Michael Sattler, but there simply wasn't much material he could find to read from these authors.) John Holdeman was of Swiss Brethren descent himself.

Most of his followers have ended up being of Dutch Mennonite background; to this day, there is a degree of interest in early Anabaptist writers that I haven't really seen anywhere else, except maybe amongst the Elmendorf-type Hutterite colonies or amongst a few other intentionalist-type communities like Gympie Anabaptist Fellowship or the Berne Charity church.

At my home church, as a visitor someone lent me a copy of A Pilgrim Aflame, and occasionally in a men's meeting someone will quote Simons. I simply never saw this happen at all when I was in an Amish-Mennonite background church setting, other than from converts. It is far more likely that various evangelical types of books would be cited, or perhaps a more modern "Anabaptist" writer like John Coblentz or David Bercot.
0 x
MaxPC
Posts: 9044
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Former full time RVers
Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
Contact:

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by MaxPC »

Some thoughts: I've noticed over the years authors and their writings wax and wane in their popularity. It seems to depend on several factors:
-Familiarity: what was once cited often gets tiresome and the congregations want to hear a fresh perspective.
-New authors who are viewed as more relevant and insightful for the present time.
-As Neto mentioned, bad translations creating difficulty in comprehension.

I've seen this happen in Catholic World and the Protestant World too. I think it's human nature to seek fresh perspectives to maintain zeal in discipleship - as long as the perspectives are loyal to Scripture. YMMV :D
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Hats Off
Posts: 2532
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:42 pm
Affiliation: Plain Menno OO

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by Hats Off »

I do not have the patience to try to read the old writings - my dear reader, this is just to much. I want to read what is there, without wading through everything else. I have enjoyed reading books like John Oyer's "They Harry the Good People out of the Land", Friedmann's "Theology of Anabaptism," Klassen's Anabaptism in Outline", and other similar books where they discuss in today's language, some of the early Anabaptist writings.
0 x
User avatar
Wayne in Maine
Posts: 1195
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:52 am
Location: Slightly above sea level, in the dear old State of Maine
Affiliation: Yielded

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by Wayne in Maine »

One problem with reading or studying the old Anabaptist writings is that there are so few of them available in English, or even in modern German.
0 x
KingdomBuilder
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:00 pm
Affiliation: church of Christ

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Josh wrote:At my home church, as a visitor someone lent me a copy of A Pilgrim Aflame, and occasionally in a men's meeting someone will quote Simons. I simply never saw this happen at all when I was in an Amish-Mennonite background church setting, other than from converts. It is far more likely that various evangelical types of books would be cited, or perhaps a more modern "Anabaptist" writer like John Coblentz or David Bercot.
Have you noticed any difference in the overall mindset between those who read the "old" stuff vs. those frequently citing the "new"? Any manifested, practical differences?
I imagined there would be, because as I've read both, I see quite a few differences in the mindset they push the reader towards.
0 x
Ponder anew what the Almighty can do
Soloist
Posts: 5495
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:49 pm
Affiliation: CM Seeker

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by Soloist »

I've debated learning to read those documents, but I usually settle that if I take the time, I should learn greek.

Personally having read Menno Simons work, with the exception of his "personal" opinion on celestial flesh, I would agree with his thoughts. I haven't studied it out in detail though.
0 x
Soloist, but I hate singing alone
Soloist, but my wife posts with me
Soloist, but I believe in community
Soloist, but I want God in the pilot seat
Hats Off
Posts: 2532
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:42 pm
Affiliation: Plain Menno OO

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by Hats Off »

Interpreters, like historians, can't help but be a little bit biased. There will always be a little bit of themselves showing through. Modern language also means more modern thought.
0 x
CADude
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:43 pm
Location: Southeast PA
Affiliation: Consrvt. Anabaptist

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by CADude »

Hats Off wrote:I do not have the patience to try to read the old writings - my dear reader, this is just to much. I want to read what is there, without wading through everything else.
I share your complaints, but won't sympathize with your sentiments. I believe it takes effort to read this old stuff, but if you really want to know what they said and believed, it's best to get it straight from the source. Christianity in America today seems a bit soft in how dedicated we are to study. And I believe the ways many of us use modern technology has shortened our attention span even more, making it yet more difficult to really study this kind of material.
0 x
Heirbyadoption
Posts: 1012
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:57 pm
Affiliation: Brethren

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Neto, I was under the impression that Amman was illiterate, or at least very poorly educated. I'd have to go look up my source for that though...
0 x
CADude
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:43 pm
Location: Southeast PA
Affiliation: Consrvt. Anabaptist

Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.

Post by CADude »

Heirbyadoption wrote:Neto, I was under the impression that Amman was illiterate, or at least very poorly educated. I'd have to go look up my source for that though...
I just did a quick Google search and came up with a PDF as screenshotted below:
jacobamman.jpg
jacobamman.jpg (32.32 KiB) Viewed 418 times
0 x
Post Reply