MennoNet.com

This is a bit off topic, but I should have added that I think we need to be careful about depending on the still favorable position churches are in (in this country, at least - I don't know about others). I think it would be well to carefully evaluate how much we spend on the physical plant - the buildings, up-keep & utilities, and how soon we'd find it impossible to keep them if church organizations were to loose tax exemption for real estate. It might be a good reminder to look carefully at where we (the congregation) are putting our funds, and think about whether there are not more productive places to use those funds, in respect to seeing our spiritual goals fulfilled in this world.

Neto wrote:Until a couple of years ago, in my personal practice, I strictly applied the text about giving alms in secret to all giving. But the text is really talking about alms. Someone already referred to a couple of people whose giving was reported in Scripture, and there is no indication of 'censorship' for their having been observed. So after thinking more about this in the last few years, I have decided to make use of the provisions under the law, and to request receipts where appropriate, and have started using our congregation's number system to get a year end tax receipt. (I don't actually make enough for it to make any difference over the standard deduction, but anyway...) Personally, I would not use the numbered envelope for any offering that is going for alms, but that's just my take on it. I think that the main thing is to not give for show - to impress anyone else (even the tax guy ).

i need a bit of education here.
what is the difference btw alms giving, and all/other giving?

is alms giving, specifically for cases of need? and what types of need? an individual in your own community? or organizations like CAM, or Red Cross, etc?
and other giving intended for day to day business expenses and upkeep?

appleman, there is frequent noise in the U.S., esp by atheists, but by many, about “churches must pay taxes!” .. i believe this is mostly about waived property taxes.

a lot of resentment there.
i believe the resentment is misguided.

i respond, and, so far, no response to me -
that no entity that depends on funds from the public treasury, or everyone’s combined tax dollars, should be allowed to participate in partisan politics, endorse candidates, etc.
this should include, but not be limited to, fire and police departments, public schools, entities like NPR, PP .. and, so many more.

i add, from the beginning of our government structure, churches have been granted special protections, so, care needs to be taken to compare (apples to apples) lol.

evidently, the idea of removing the “privilege” of those many public funded entities from partisan politics is just too much to fathom (?) .. by comparison, tax relief churches enjoy are small.

because no one responds, i’m uncertain about my own reasoning.
but, so far, this is how it adds up in my mind.

in the U.S., gov funds/employs LOTS of people!
the way it has been going in recent years, it seems everyone is looking for that gov check, from the most humble welfare moms to the biggest corporations. gimme-gimme. it’s gone to a scary level.
this level of gov dependency just cannot be healthy, or, even sustainable.

those folks LOVE to participate in partisan politics in as big way as they are able to force.
they never seem to consider they are funded with EVERYONE’S combined tax dollars, not just their favored ones.

justme wrote:

Neto wrote:Until a couple of years ago, in my personal practice, I strictly applied the text about giving alms in secret to all giving. But the text is really talking about alms. Someone already referred to a couple of people whose giving was reported in Scripture, and there is no indication of 'censorship' for their having been observed. So after thinking more about this in the last few years, I have decided to make use of the provisions under the law, and to request receipts where appropriate, and have started using our congregation's number system to get a year end tax receipt. (I don't actually make enough for it to make any difference over the standard deduction, but anyway...) Personally, I would not use the numbered envelope for any offering that is going for alms, but that's just my take on it. I think that the main thing is to not give for show - to impress anyone else (even the tax guy ).

i need a bit of education here.
what is the difference btw alms giving, and all/other giving?

is alms giving, specifically for cases of need? and what types of need? an individual in your own community? or organizations like CAM, or Red Cross, etc?
and other giving intended for day to day business expenses and upkeep?

I was commenting from the standpoint of how our congregation distinguishes the two. Alms, in the Scriptural context (as I understand it), was for the poor. In our congregation the alms fund is specifically used to meet financial needs within the congregation. (I personally feel that it should also be used for the needs of others outside the congregation as well, but that is done through a part of the "missions fund".) We have two families in our congregation where the wife was abandoned by her husband. (In one case the husband was also a member, in the other, the woman came to our congregation with her children after this took place.) Widows are also assisted by this fund, which basically depends on the two offerings per year, taken at communion.

Just clarifying a couple of things. In Canada if you make above 8000 a year as a single and about 14000 if you have dependants and if give even a few hundred dollars you will get a refund on your taxes. After the first 200 dollars I think it goes to something like 30 percent or even more of what you give. It is quite significant. A person that gives 10000 dollars for example would literally be giving 3 to 4 thousand dollars to the government that he could be giving to charity. I am not trying to be critical of those of you that choose to do things differently. I am just trying to help you understand why some of us might see this in another light.

Neto wrote:I was commenting from the standpoint of how our congregation distinguishes the two. Alms, in the Scriptural context (as I understand it), was for the poor. In our congregation the alms fund is specifically used to meet financial needs within the congregation. (I personally feel that it should also be used for the needs of others outside the congregation as well, but that is done through a part of the "missions fund".) We have two families in our congregation where the wife was abandoned by her husband. (In one case the husband was also a member, in the other, the woman came to our congregation with her children after this took place.) Widows are also assisted by this fund, which basically depends on the two offerings per year, taken at communion.

thanks neto.
that clarifies it for me.
and it's pretty much what i was thinking that you had meant.

appleman2006 wrote:In Canada if you make above 8000 a year as a single and about 14000 if you have dependants and if give even a few hundred dollars you will get a refund on your taxes.

Is this refund a tax credit, a deduction from taxable income, or something else?

When we claim a deduction for charitable donations, it becomes a credit towards taxes payable (reducing taxes payable) and can result in a tax refund.

It is as Hat's off described. It is a fairly complicated formula that I do not have memorized right now. The first 200 dollars is a one lower rate and then anything after that is refunded at a considerably higher rate both by the province and by the federal government.

Essentially it is classified as a tax credit I believe but ultimately it is no different then if you total income was decreased somewhat.

An article about this is printed in the current issue of Stewardship Connections (Anabaptist Financial) that I would like to hear thoughts on.

https://www.afweb.org/sites/default/fil ... Issue1.pdf

Is this being "too picky" to say that you cannot request that a donation to a mission organization be used to support a specific missionary family?
Any other thoughts welcome as well; and yes, I do realize that the other way would be to just consider it a personal gift, not tax deductible at all. But members of "faith missions" (like where we served, Wycliffe Bible Translators) live entirely on this type of donations, and if the mission organization really just sent the funds that came in where ever they felt like, you could never make any plans for future ministry projects. (In WBT, all of our ministry expenses came out of what we received each month as a couple. So if one of the people needed emergency health care, we called the plane in and that expense came out of our account. Same for the hospital bills to cover their care.)