What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Soloist
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by Soloist »

in defense of my position which is not a popular one... Do we really want to have our church registered? Do we want to receive government funds for operation? Do we lightly say the government is not made up of people too? They know who we are and thus it violates Jesus's teaching. Now if you are not bothered by these claims... Fine... I still think its shaky grounds but we all stand to follow what we are convicted on when things are not clear.
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appleman2006
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by appleman2006 »

I guess I am a bit confused. How are churches or even we for that matter receiving government funds?

I believe that as Christians it is quite clear that we are required as a direct command in Scripture from Christ himself to pay our taxes. But in no place do I see that we are asked to pay more than we owe which is exactly what a person is doing that does not claim his legitimate charitable receipts. If you are in a refund position it is not the government paying you. Rather than are paying back your money which was never theirs to begin with.

In our countries the government has asked employers to be tax collectors for them and to collect taxes in advance of year end. But until you file your income tax statement it is technically not theirs because they have no way of knowing what you really owe. They are simply holding it as an advance payment. If you pay more than you are lawfully required to for any reason, that is technically a gift to them. Because the government spends so much on things I do not approve of not to mention the extreme waste, I would consider it to be very poor stewardship on my part to give them money I am not required to give by law or by scriptural command.

The reason governments set up this receipt method for charitable giving in the first place is because in the past very wise people in government recognized the fact that NGOs were much better at do social work than the government. they recognized that private industry made a dollar go much much further as a rule than what anything connected to government ever could. Many people have forgotten that. and I expect it is only a matter of time that the hammer will be dropped on this. Particularly for churches. But until it does I will take advantage of it very cheerfully and be very thankful that our governments are still smart enough to do things this way.

I do have a question and maybe this does not apply to you in the US. But here in Canada churches are also exempt from paying property tax. Would you insist that your church also makes a donation to the government to offset that? Because I would see that as the very same thing.
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Valerie
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by Valerie »

Okay, I have been wrestling with something I overheard Friday night- I just have to know if this is a 'saying' among the Mennonites as in trying to be funny- it's bugged me since I heard it.

I was waiting to ask a Mennonite Auctioneer a question, for this big auction he was putting on- while waiting for him to be free- he was talking to a young man, Amish guy- (no beard, meaning he hadn't been baptized yet) so the Mennonite man assumed he wasn't married which the young man said, "not yet"-
So the Mennonite man said "You know, you can make more marrying in one day, than you can make working in a lifetime"

Really? This is advice for an unmarried? I have to ask- is this a common joke? I'm assuming he's advising the young man to 'marry into money'-

I walked away no longer wanting to ask the auctioneer the question I had, admittedly a little bugged, I know he's quite successful and seems well off, made me wonder if he married into it, but he obviously works hard- so I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt that he was kidding- still, not the greatest advice for a young unmarried Amish man regarding marriage.
I guess I was somewhat surprised by the emphasis of wealth as a goal in choosing a mate-
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RZehr
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by RZehr »

I assume it was good natured ribbing. I was told the exact same thing years ago by a Protestant coworker.
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Valerie
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by Valerie »

RZehr wrote:I assume it was good natured ribbing. I was told the exact same thing years ago by a Protestant coworker.
Perhaps, and maybe the young man knew better- in some ways, I think it could plant a bad seed (idea) or temptation to do that, but maybe I'm just more vulnerable to take bad advice than others - so apparently it is a saying I have missed in these 59 years, thanks Rzehr- I'd probably almost equate that with coarse jesting because whether it be immorality jesting, or jesting about advising marrying into money- well......... just call me a wet blanket about it :-|
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RZehr
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by RZehr »

Valerie wrote:
RZehr wrote:I assume it was good natured ribbing. I was told the exact same thing years ago by a Protestant coworker.
Perhaps, and maybe the young man knew better- in some ways, I think it could plant a bad seed (idea) or temptation to do that, but maybe I'm just more vulnerable to take bad advice than others - so apparently it is a saying I have missed in these 59 years, thanks Rzehr- I'd probably almost equate that with coarse jesting because whether it be immorality jesting, or jesting about advising marrying into money- well......... just call me a wet blanket about it :-|
What was the young mans response? Did it seem like it was received as serious advice?
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appleman2006
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by appleman2006 »

I am assuming what you saw first hand was a bit of stoic sarcasm.

As a person that loves to joke around myself it is a good reminder to me that what I might see as funny someone else might not. On the other hand some of us might feel sometimes that we cannot win. Either we are accused of being dour and solemn all the time or we are accused of being too frivolous.

But ultimately I guess we are at least to try not to be offensive to others. I for on will keep on trying knowing full well that I am going to mess up sometimes.
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Valerie
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by Valerie »

RZehr wrote:
Valerie wrote:
RZehr wrote:I assume it was good natured ribbing. I was told the exact same thing years ago by a Protestant coworker.
Perhaps, and maybe the young man knew better- in some ways, I think it could plant a bad seed (idea) or temptation to do that, but maybe I'm just more vulnerable to take bad advice than others - so apparently it is a saying I have missed in these 59 years, thanks Rzehr- I'd probably almost equate that with coarse jesting because whether it be immorality jesting, or jesting about advising marrying into money- well......... just call me a wet blanket about it :-|
What was the young mans response? Did it seem like it was received as serious advice?
The young man smiled- didn't say anything, I guess I overreacted and yes I guess I place higher standards on Mennonites & Amish, but this topic had started & i know that others have posted about Mennonite wealth and so probably those things had influenced my reaction too-
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Valerie
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by Valerie »

appleman2006 wrote:I am assuming what you saw first hand was a bit of stoic sarcasm.

As a person that loves to joke around myself it is a good reminder to me that what I might see as funny someone else might not. On the other hand some of us might feel sometimes that we cannot win. Either we are accused of being dour and solemn all the time or we are accused of being too frivolous.

But ultimately I guess we are at least to try not to be offensive to others. I for on will keep on trying knowing full well that I am going to mess up sometimes.
You know appleman, I have not picked up on the use of 'sarcasm' among the Amish but having been around them now in many settings, I notice that they have a great sense of humor, tease each other, and englishers who know them, tease them back & forth as well, so I haven't noticed a lack of humor among them at all- they are quiet yes, in general but I've enjoyed witnessing that humor, clean & simple-
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appleman2006
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Re: What is our opinion of the wealthy among us?

Post by appleman2006 »

I agree that sarcasm is not a type of humour that is real common among Amish and Mennonites and perhaps that is a good thing. At least some people think so. When it is used it tends to be in a very dry form. Often so subtle that it is not even picked up by some that are not used to that form.

I have noticed that some Mennonites do not get sarcasm at all. Not totally sure why that is.
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