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I am referring to those brethren in our churches who are wealthy or well-to-do (big wheels as they are often called). Do we sub-consciously worship them? Do we equate their level of wealth to a higher level of spirituality? Do their opinions matter more than others?

To this end, what do we think of poor people? Those who struggle to make ends meet? Are they lesser of a person than anyone else? Are they second class?

Discuss.

steve-in-kville wrote:I am referring to those brethren in our churches who are wealthy or well-to-do (big wheels as they are often called). Do we sub-consciously worship them? Do we equate their level of wealth to a higher level of spirituality? Do their opinions matter more than others?

To this end, what do we think of poor people? Those who struggle to make ends meet? Are they lesser of a person than anyone else? Are they second class?

Discuss.

I think, in our humanness, we look up to them as models of hard work and wisdom. We often put them in leadership positions too (I've heard it said that it is because they can afford it where ministers are unpaid). And I do think we tend to look down on the poor among us.

But I believe such is not so in the Kingdom of God.

Wayne in Maine wrote:I think, in our humanness, we look up to them as models of hard work and wisdom. We often put them in leadership positions too (I've heard it said that it is because they can afford it where ministers are unpaid). And I do think we tend to look down on the poor among us.

But I believe such is not so in the Kingdom of God.

Sadly, there can also be a dynamic where people know whose donations are keeping the church running financially, and (perhaps unconsciously) think of them as foundational to the church. We can be the same way with education in the non-plain churches, I get the feeling that is less of a problem with the plain churches.

I just had this conversation with a pastor in my (non-Mennonite) church yesterday. He is really struggling with how we can be more welcoming to the poor and less educated around us when our church culture is not geared toward that.

Wayne in Maine wrote: I think, in our humanness, we look up to them as models of hard work and wisdom. We often put them in leadership positions too (I've heard it said that it is because they can afford it where ministers are unpaid). And I do think we tend to look down on the poor among us.

But I believe such is not so in the Kingdom of God.

Many a time those who are wealthy among us had wealthy parents and grandparents and the wealth just indicates that the current generation continues to make good use of what was handed down to them. However, we still tend to "give them the higher seats", thinking that their wealth indicates that they would be also good choices for leadership positions. The poorest advice I can recall receiving was from someone who was well to do - he had no way of relating to my experience. One of the purposes of brotherhood and standards is to obscure the relative financial worth of each brother (or sister.) Finances should never be a consideration in choosing candidates for leadership position (unless they are due to the individual's work ethic or spending practices, in which case it is not the financial situation that is the problem.)

So, yes, at least subconsciously, we do look up to the wealthy and disdain the poor.

I tend to think of James 5.
[bible]James 5,1-6[/bible]
I know that's not always fair.

Another dynamic: businesses need leadership too, and people with leadership skills tend to be more highly paid. Some of these same leadership skills are also relevant in a church setting.

That is never an excuse for disdaining the poor, though, and churches often benefit by using gifts and leadership skills that secular business does not recognize. If we do not lift up the poor among us, we are messing up badly.

I remember being part of a conversation with brothers from another fellowship regarding a church plant a number of years ago. One person's name that I recommended as a potential pastor was dismissed because of concerns over his handling of personal finances. The implication was that because he had struggled financially upon his return from the mission field, he would be disqualified from leading a church.

Z_DC wrote:I remember being part of a conversation with other brothers during a church plant discussion a number of years ago. One person's name that I recommended as a potential pastor was dismissed because of concerns over his handling of personal finances. The implication was that because he had struggled financially upon his return from the mission field, he would be disqualified from leading a church.

Was this because he had handled his money badly, or because he had served in missions and had difficulty restarting his financial life (which is very common)?

If the rich young man had sold all he had and given it to the poor, as Jesus commanded, would he have disqualified himself as a leader?

I felt it was the latter - that he had trouble restarting his financial concerns following his missions involvement. He did seem to be a rather generous individual which I viewed as a positive!

Maybe this varies according to the individual church culture - but I think sometimes there is some ambivalence toward people who are conspicuously successful in business from church members who are salaried or work for wages. It's almost a bit of a class thing. In the church I've spent the most time in, the people who were in the former category tended to hold off from leadership positions.