Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Bootstrap
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Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by Bootstrap »

I am starting this thread to give us a place to discuss the claims that keep coming up about the Orthodox Church and whether we should consider joining it rather than continuing in our own traditions. I don't care if we actually discuss this topic, but if we do, I would rather do it in one place, and I plan to move posts on the topic here before answering them. It is rarely the topic of the thread where it comes up, it's just a distraction.

For what it's worth, I spent a year in an Orthodox Church in the late 1970s and considered joining it, but found I could not. About a year later, I joined a Mennonite church for the first time. I still attend Orthodox services from time to time, and work with Orthodox Christians on some projects related to Greek. I consider them brethren. I could not join their church, they could not join mine.
ken_sylvania wrote:
Valerie wrote:Millions of these EO Christians have given their life for Christ- most of the martyrs we hear of in other parts of the world, are from the 'backslidden' (as you assume) Christianity- having their heads cut off when given the choice to deny Christ and live- or die- I have known some very devout Christians that were baptized as infants and serve the Lord now-
You can assume that the entire Church fell away and all over the world these Believers are self deceived or not, I have a feeling many will be surprised on the other side- but it is for God to judge- they do also baptize adult converts, (out of simple obedience) but the claim is the Apostles taught to baptize infants- (even whole households) those who said this are either liars or telling the truth- I am not going to assume they are liars. Almost all my life I believed in Believers baptism as well, for same reasons- but I believe Jesus and how He said suffer not the chidren to come unto me, for such is the Kingdom of Heaven- and they are welcome to be in His family, baptized, anointed, and raised in the fear and nurture of the Lord by their parents- some will leave the faith, some will stay- we are not forced to stay but I will not judge the whole world of Christians who believe this was taught by the Apostles, and why- and to them, they are being just as faithful to the Holy Spirit's guidance, as those who believe differently- I think the Church will truly be reformed when the pride of assuming we are right about everything and others are deceived, leaves- we are praying our way through this- not set in our own past teachers influence, seeking to understand- but I at this point don't see a reformation happening on this side- because some follow this person's beliefs, some that- and all seem thoroughly convinced-
The New Testament is clear that there will be many who will be deceived, and instructs us to "try the spirits" to see whether they are of God. I'm not in a position to condemn the "millions of EO martyrs" that you are talking about. I don't know them. But I do know that the Eastern Orthodox priests who instigated the Kishinev pogrom in 1903 were not obeying Jesus.
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haithabu
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Re: Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by haithabu »

The only orthodox churches I am concerned with are the lower case ones. That is, the ones who seek to be faithful to apostolic teaching. I consider the Orthodox Church to be among that number.
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Hats Off
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Re: Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by Hats Off »

And just for interests sake, we have friends who belong to the Orthodox Mennonite church.
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ohio jones
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Re: Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by ohio jones »

Hats Off wrote:And just for interests sake, we have friends who belong to the Orthodox Mennonite church.
I'm pretty sure they don't claim apostolic succession (maybe secession, though). I got confused by the Gameo and Wikipedia entries and tried to diagram their pedigree; got completely lost within the first 5 years. :x
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Valerie
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Re: Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by Valerie »

Bootstrap wrote: I still attend Orthodox services from time to time, and work with Orthodox Christians on some projects related to Greek. I consider them brethren. I could not join their church, they could not join mine.
Truly that is the case, although there have been many Anabaptists that have become Orthodox, I have read their writings and articles- and they will still attest to there are redeeming characteristics in the Anabaptist faith-

I was surprised to see Anabaptists mentioned in this article but it is discouraging to me- I don't think you could ever convince the Orthodox that the Apostles did not teach infant baptism- with their history of Apostolic succession and all the records of the entire Church age (which survived, many were destroyed) you would never convince them of Believers baptism 'only' although there is Believers Baptism in the EO Church to converts- they do this all the time -

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Infant_baptism

Like you, we were unsettled about a couple of things that is just hard for us to embrace- it can be discouraging as I have seen others not have the same problems

On 'this' side of heaven it seems neither side can give on many things, both convinced- :cry:
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by Wayne in Maine »

Anabaptists are not Orthodox because they do not derive their beliefs from the 11th, or 6th or 4th or even 1st century writings of church leaders. They derive their beliefs and practices from the words of Jesus as recorded or attested to by His chosen witnesses. Many churches went astray, even as early as the apostolic period when Paul had to write letters to correct errors in the churches. Obviously this drift continued. The churches of the Roman Empire (West and East) look nothing like anything described about Jesus' followers in the Gospels and letters of the apostles. SO rather than emulate a drifted, fallen religious tradition, Anabaptist return to the indisputable source that all churches should have been following - the New Testament.
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mike
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Re: Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by mike »

Wayne in Maine wrote:Anabaptists are not Orthodox because they do not derive their beliefs from the 11th, or 6th or 4th or even 1st century writings of church leaders. They derive their beliefs and practices from the words of Jesus as recorded or attested to by His chosen witnesses. Many churches went astray, even as early as the apostolic period when Paul had to write letters to correct errors in the churches. Obviously this drift continued. The churches of the Roman Empire (West and East) look nothing like anything described about Jesus' followers in the Gospels and letters of the apostles. SO rather than emulate a drifted, fallen religious tradition, Anabaptist return to the indisputable source that all churches should have been following - the New Testament.
This is one of the better succinct answers to this question that I have read. Thanks Wayne.
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Hats Off
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Re: Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by Hats Off »

ohio jones wrote:
Hats Off wrote:And just for interests sake, we have friends who belong to the Orthodox Mennonite church.
I'm pretty sure they don't claim apostolic succession (maybe secession, though). I got confused by the Gameo and Wikipedia entries and tried to diagram their pedigree; got completely lost within the first 5 years. :x
I would think their claim (if anything) is that they are orthodox Mennonites - although I have never discussed this with my sister.
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Sudsy
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Re: Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by Sudsy »

Wayne in Maine wrote:Anabaptists are not Orthodox because they do not derive their beliefs from the 11th, or 6th or 4th or even 1st century writings of church leaders. They derive their beliefs and practices from the words of Jesus as recorded or attested to by His chosen witnesses. Many churches went astray, even as early as the apostolic period when Paul had to write letters to correct errors in the churches. Obviously this drift continued. The churches of the Roman Empire (West and East) look nothing like anything described about Jesus' followers in the Gospels and letters of the apostles. SO rather than emulate a drifted, fallen religious tradition, Anabaptist return to the indisputable source that all churches should have been following - the New Testament.
Problem was, and still is, using this 'indisputable source' we carry on many disputes and are one of the most 'split off' groups per numbers within Christianity.
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silentreader
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Re: Why Anabaptists and Mennonites are not Orthodox

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
Wayne in Maine wrote:Anabaptists are not Orthodox because they do not derive their beliefs from the 11th, or 6th or 4th or even 1st century writings of church leaders. They derive their beliefs and practices from the words of Jesus as recorded or attested to by His chosen witnesses. Many churches went astray, even as early as the apostolic period when Paul had to write letters to correct errors in the churches. Obviously this drift continued. The churches of the Roman Empire (West and East) look nothing like anything described about Jesus' followers in the Gospels and letters of the apostles. SO rather than emulate a drifted, fallen religious tradition, Anabaptist return to the indisputable source that all churches should have been following - the New Testament.
Problem was, and still is, using this 'indisputable source' we carry on many disputes and are one of the most 'split off' groups per numbers within Christianity.
Obviously it's not the undisputed things that we split over.
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