Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Soloist
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Soloist »

Wade wrote:
Wade wrote: I forgot to state that fitting into culture takes money. So when one can't keep up with Miller's, it isn't going to work. Mennonite culture is expensive! We have never been able to fit into that...
I'm very thankful for the clothing shop near us ran by friends of ours (we met them very early on with our walk with the Mennonites) You can buy a dress for around 4$ or so. Downside is of course they might fit more like bags, be too short for my wife's tastes, have too short of sleeves (for our church) or choke my wife's neck :roll:
Every now and then she finds a decent keeper that lasts. Most of the fabric seems durable enough to last through more than one person's likes.
Strangely enough, I got my plain suit from an ex-Amish for free.

All in all to say our cost, other than my son's clothing has been gas. There have been small moments like for example, our anniversary was a day or two ago and shortly before that someone had offered me a temp job that gave us enough money for a nice anniversary meal. It seems like God does care about the small things, its just hard thinking about my personal struggles in that perspective.

A kind gift we were given was our first custom made dress for all my girls+wife when my son died. Someone also was kind enough to hand make me a nice shirt too.
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Once Again
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Once Again »

I think the best thing a NMB could do is think long and hard about why they wish to join a traditional Mennonite church like this. I think the best reason a NMB person could have for joining a traditional Mennonite church is for their children's sake.
Exactly. I'm really struggling to teach my children about nonresistance, modesty and godly behavior. Being able to attend a church that reinforces what they learn at home would make a big difference.
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Wade
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Wade »

Mrs.Nisly wrote:
Wade wrote:
Wade wrote:
If it was about trying to conform to a culture and less about Christ, it would be easy to just conform
I forgot to state that fitting into culture takes money. So when one can't keep up with Miller's, it isn't going to work. Mennonite culture is expensive! We have never been able to fit into that...
Then don't try to live out your practices and beliefs in a Mennonite context if you think it's too expensive. There are probably other cultures that fit what you believe is following Christ better for you.
I don't think you understand. We didn't try to live out our practices and beliefs in a Mennonite context. And no there are not any other cultures that I know of that fit better.

We have never been able to afford a second vehicle to take our children to the church school - which has been a requirement that we were rejected for not being able to do.
For many months we didn't have beds or even a kitchen table. We ate off the floor - sorry I didn't feel right inviting you all over... I probably should have?
I would love to join in MDS and etc. but I am not sure how I would pay bills with those loss of wages and my wife doesn't have the help of a mother or grandmother that supports this way of life, so I get to do most all the house chores while she attends to a baby plus five more. My vision has blurred for months a couple times this year - doctors couldn't figure it out. When I started sleeping more than 3-5 hours for bits of time again my vision came back.
Clean and tidy house... Some of these other things felt more important than dressers or book shelves to even buy such things...

I am convinced that little to no Mennonites understand what they are asking people when they expect obedience to minimum standards that are out of people's resources to comply to.
Please don't feel sorry for me or think I am looking for pity - I just don't think most realize how easy they have had it and how well there course has been set for them to be able to even submit. This can be why it is so hard for new comers to watch the young men continually stomp all over the boundaries, while not being able to afford to even get there...
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Hats Off
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Hats Off »

Wade wrote:
Mrs.Nisly wrote:
Wade wrote:
I forgot to state that fitting into culture takes money. So when one can't keep up with Miller's, it isn't going to work. Mennonite culture is expensive! We have never been able to fit into that...
Then don't try to live out your practices and beliefs in a Mennonite context if you think it's too expensive. There are probably other cultures that fit what you believe is following Christ better for you.
I don't think you understand. We didn't try to live out our practices and beliefs in a Mennonite context. And no there are not any other cultures that I know of that fit better.

We have never been able to afford a second vehicle to take our children to the church school - which has been a requirement that we were rejected for not being able to do.
For many months we didn't have beds or even a kitchen table. We ate off the floor - sorry I didn't feel right inviting you all over... I probably should have?
I would love to join in MDS and etc. but I am not sure how I would pay bills with those loss of wages and my wife doesn't have the help of a mother or grandmother that supports this way of life, so I get to do most all the house chores while she attends to a baby plus five more. My vision has blurred for months a couple times this year - doctors couldn't figure it out. When I started sleeping more than 3-5 hours for bits of time again my vision came back.
Clean and tidy house... Some of these other things felt more important than dressers or book shelves to even buy such things...

I am convinced that little to no Mennonites understand what they are asking people when they expect obedience to minimum standards that are out of people's resources to comply to.
Please don't feel sorry for me or think I am looking for pity - I just don't think most realize how easy they have had it and how well there course has been set for them to be able to even submit. This can be why it is so hard for new comers to watch the young men continually stomp all over the boundaries, while not being able to afford to even get there...
I am not trying to tell you what you could/should have done differently - but I think it would surely have been good for the people where you were attending to have been invited into your home. We had a family here with no driver's licence - people took turns taking them along to church and shopping. Giving rides to school should not be a big deal - even gifts of hand me down clothes and furniture would not be too much to expect. I would like to think these are things that we would (and should) do.
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Wade
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Wade »

Hats Off wrote: I am not trying to tell you what you could/should have done differently - but I think it would surely have been good for the people where you were attending to have been invited into your home. We had a family here with no driver's licence - people took turns taking them along to church and shopping. Giving rides to school should not be a big deal - even gifts of hand me down clothes and furniture would not be too much to expect. I would like to think these are things that we would (and should) do.
I respect and appreciate your advice.

I can see things better now. Back then I was so naive and ignorant that we would face rejection because of communication about finances and be labeled as individualistic.

Awareness might help others.
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Mrs.Nisly
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Mrs.Nisly »

Wade wrote:
Mrs.Nisly wrote:
Wade wrote:
I forgot to state that fitting into culture takes money. So when one can't keep up with Miller's, it isn't going to work. Mennonite culture is expensive! We have never been able to fit into that...
Then don't try to live out your practices and beliefs in a Mennonite context if you think it's too expensive. There are probably other cultures that fit what you believe is following Christ better for you.
I don't think you understand. We didn't try to live out our practices and beliefs in a Mennonite context. And no there are not any other cultures that I know of that fit better.

We have never been able to afford a second vehicle to take our children to the church school - which has been a requirement that we were rejected for not being able to do.
For many months we didn't have beds or even a kitchen table. We ate off the floor - sorry I didn't feel right inviting you all over... I probably should have?
I would love to join in MDS and etc. but I am not sure how I would pay bills with those loss of wages and my wife doesn't have the help of a mother or grandmother that supports this way of life, so I get to do most all the house chores while she attends to a baby plus five more. My vision has blurred for months a couple times this year - doctors couldn't figure it out. When I started sleeping more than 3-5 hours for bits of time again my vision came back.
Clean and tidy house... Some of these other things felt more important than dressers or book shelves to even buy such things...

I am convinced that little to no Mennonites understand what they are asking people when they expect obedience to minimum standards that are out of people's resources to comply to.
Please don't feel sorry for me or think I am looking for pity - I just don't think most realize how easy they have had it and how well there course has been set for them to be able to even submit. This can be why it is so hard for new comers to watch the young men continually stomp all over the boundaries, while not being able to afford to even get there...
I am sorry you have encountered the financial difficulties which you've had, I really am.

My point in my response is that Conservative Mennonite culture is not the only way the Gospel can be lived out.

What I am hearing is that the issue for you was that you were in financial need whether or not you were in a Mennonite culture or in another Christian culture.
That's different than saying the Mennonite culture is too expensive.
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Ernie
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Ernie »

Josh wrote:My advice: don’t spend time thinking about a place that had no plans to accept you. Focus on places where people actually live Christ’s gospel instead.
I agree with this. I came to the conclusion quite a few years ago that there are many Anabaptist churches that are not a fit for non-Anabaptist people and won't become a fit for them for a long time.

What Wade needed was a MennoNet (or better yet a knowledgeable person or two) who could help him navigate these things whenever he got interested in Anabaptists. Unfortunately, there are many people interested in Anabaptists who try navigating these things on their own and have a bad experience. We know nothing about until the damage until it has been done.
But now folks like Wade have some folks to help him, and before he joins another church, these folks and their allies can help him understand a bit better what he can expect at the church he is considering.
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PeterG
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by PeterG »

Mrs.Nisly wrote:What I am hearing is that the issue for you was that you were in financial need whether or not you were in a Mennonite culture or in another Christian culture.
That's different than saying the Mennonite culture is too expensive.
Wade can speak for himself, but what I hear him saying is that he felt it was impossible for him to be accepted into the Mennonite church as long as he remained in financial need. To the degree that feeling was correct, the situation did not correspond well with the New Testament's description of Christ's church, to say the least.

Not that anyone's said otherwise, but I also think it's worth noting that "Mennonite culture" is not monolithic; there's more than one Mennonite culture.
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Soloist
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Soloist »

PeterG wrote: Wade can speak for himself, but what I hear him saying is that he felt it was impossible for him to be accepted into the Mennonite church as long as he remained in financial need. To the degree that feeling was correct, the situation did not correspond well with the New Testament's description of Christ's church, to say the least.

Not that anyone's said otherwise, but I also think it's worth noting that "Mennonite culture" is not monolithic; there's more than one Mennonite culture.

I can relate to that... Right now I can't afford any medical bills aside from welfare... the opinion of the church is no insurance. Now when it comes to brotherhood aid, it seems to be focused on big bills not the little ones... So if you can't afford the little ones they might think you are lazy because there is work available. Driving tractors is one of the few untrained jobs I could get and that pays between 10-12$ an hour. Thats not enough to pay routine medical bills so thus you have to find ways to work around limited money... aka have a garden, and canning. If you have little children or even, a special needs child thats just not possible. You end up realizing that you will fit in much better if you are in a well payed job.

The alternative isn't even a decent option though, a mix between un-scriptural or downright unstable options. I'd consider a baptist church if I knew of one with modest clothing, non-resistance and head-covering... pretty much the two kingdom theology. I know they exist but the same problem with finding conservative churches in the anabaptist world exists there too.
My personal stance right now is try to make work what is available and be willing to invest what I can. I'm debating simply not being a member until I'm financially stable to fix those issues. All this to say, I still need the spiritual help I hope the church can provide.
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by steve-in-kville »

A few years ago we went through some tough financial times. I was visited by a deacon whose answer to everything was to breed and raise dogs. He had all the figures, too: if I had two females and they each had two litters a year, I'd clear $XXXX and my worries would be over.

I refused to be another mennonite that bred dogs!
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