Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
YorkandAdams
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by YorkandAdams »

steve-in-kville wrote:
Wade wrote:However what new comers NEED to realize is that just because Mennonites are hospitable and welcoming is NO indication that you are accepted.
Or perhaps you will be held at arm's length or perhaps second-class to everyone else. Its all about pedigree...
This is sobering guys, really it is.

Acceptance is a really strange concept. How do you know if you are accepted vs. simply being tolerated? I am assuming that you guys base it largely on personal feelings?

I know some people at my church would prefer that I was not there. Especially when I called them out for willfully disobeying the standards at the church picnic within my first month of being there (Probably should have done that in private). I've learned my lesson since, breaking the standard is "not a big deal" as long as you know which boundaries are not enforced or you do it when the ministry is not around. So frustrating!

I do feel that I have made several good friends, and that I have found a good place to be while deciding which of the different Mennonite “levels” I fit on. I feel accepted by the people in my age group, so that’s a plus. But the pedigree issue is absolutely true. The Mennonite game only has one loser, the one who can’t play by default. You feel out of place without the “right” last name, and I have experienced this even with a Mennonite sounding last name (my name is extremely common in Mennonite circles, but also in “the world”). I have never felt that I was held at arm’s length by anyone, but maybe it because I am able to pull of the whole “Mennonite” look.
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Josh
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Josh »

steve-in-kville wrote:I've been at this for almost 25 years. I used to be critical of people who left plain churches, whether they were born and raised there, or were transplants like me. Thankfully, I am no longer critical. In fact I don't blame anybody anymore. As far as success rate, I know of very, very few people that make it. I personally know of two other families. One was even ordained in the EPMC church. Both families not only left, but went way off the deep end, like atheist, etc.
I wonder why this is not the case for Holdemans. They have (by far) the highest number of non-ethnic Mennonites both in North America and overseas. I have yet to go to any congregation, other than tiny missions, that doesn't have more than 1 non-ethnic Mennonite background member.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Wade wrote:How welcomed new comers are is exciting because it gives a feeling of acceptance since obviously we don't fit in elsewhere. However what new comers NEED to realize is that just because Mennonites are hospitable and welcoming is NO indication that you are accepted.
My intent in emphasizing and sharing this is to help both sides get past these things that hinder the furtherance of the gospel and His kingdom.
You know you are accepted when you start being called upon to give hospitality rather than receive it.

J.M.
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Wade
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Wade »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Wade wrote:How welcomed new comers are is exciting because it gives a feeling of acceptance since obviously we don't fit in elsewhere. However what new comers NEED to realize is that just because Mennonites are hospitable and welcoming is NO indication that you are accepted.
My intent in emphasizing and sharing this is to help both sides get past these things that hinder the furtherance of the gospel and His kingdom.
You know you are accepted when you start being called upon to give hospitality rather than receive it.

J.M.
If the minister keeps stalling on baptism and won't give you answers, holy kiss denied, no communion, when the new comer offers to help it is denied most of the time, and obviously no membership, and etc. but rather one gets more answers from member children telling the new comers children; then that is what I was more referring to when it comes to not having acceptance.

So does a family fail the test if the wife doesn't give hospitality for whatever reason?
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Wade wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Wade wrote:How welcomed new comers are is exciting because it gives a feeling of acceptance since obviously we don't fit in elsewhere. However what new comers NEED to realize is that just because Mennonites are hospitable and welcoming is NO indication that you are accepted.
My intent in emphasizing and sharing this is to help both sides get past these things that hinder the furtherance of the gospel and His kingdom.
You know you are accepted when you start being called upon to give hospitality rather than receive it.

J.M.
If the minister keeps stalling on baptism and won't give you answers, holy kiss denied, no communion, when the new comer offers to help it is denied most of the time, and obviously no membership, and etc. but rather one gets more answers from member children telling the new comers children; then that is what I was more referring to when it comes to not having acceptance.

So does a family fail the test if the wife doesn't give hospitality for whatever reason?
No. I don't see this as a test at all. You and Steve just appear to have found churches that may themselves have failed the "test." There are churches that are found wanting in every conference and denomination. God help you to find a better one.

J.M.
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Hats Off
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Hats Off »

Wade wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Wade wrote:How welcomed new comers are is exciting because it gives a feeling of acceptance since obviously we don't fit in elsewhere. However what new comers NEED to realize is that just because Mennonites are hospitable and welcoming is NO indication that you are accepted.
My intent in emphasizing and sharing this is to help both sides get past these things that hinder the furtherance of the gospel and His kingdom.
You know you are accepted when you start being called upon to give hospitality rather than receive it.

J.M.
If the minister keeps stalling on baptism and won't give you answers, holy kiss denied, no communion, when the new comer offers to help it is denied most of the time, and obviously no membership, and etc. but rather one gets more answers from member children telling the new comers children; then that is what I was more referring to when it comes to not having acceptance.

So does a family fail the test if the wife doesn't give hospitality for whatever reason?
No!

I find myself so frustrated with your situation, Wade. I don't believe it should be that way at all.

The holy kiss and communion follow after membership but discussion with ministers and other members should be entirely open. If you offered to help on our MDS project, I would welcome you with open arms!
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Wade
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Wade »

Hats Off wrote:
Wade wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote: You know you are accepted when you start being called upon to give hospitality rather than receive it.

J.M.
If the minister keeps stalling on baptism and won't give you answers, holy kiss denied, no communion, when the new comer offers to help it is denied most of the time, and obviously no membership, and etc. but rather one gets more answers from member children telling the new comers children; then that is what I was more referring to when it comes to not having acceptance.

So does a family fail the test if the wife doesn't give hospitality for whatever reason?
No!

I find myself so frustrated with your situation, Wade. I don't believe it should be that way at all.

The holy kiss and communion follow after membership but discussion with ministers and other members should be entirely open. If you offered to help on our MDS project, I would welcome you with open arms!
It is a lot to forsake all family, friends, career, home, etc., etc. to look for a biblical church. When one thinks they will find that at a Mennonite Church but run into all kinds of issues it is hard to know where to turn for fellowship at least... My opportunities to convince my family to try again are over. But I trust God that even though people think we are Mennonites we will pray for His grace for us to be faithful to the Truth in a Baptist church so if anything pray for us, rather where I can help preparing others to make it work in a Mennonite church is what building I would like to do. So I don't want this to be about me - Sorry!

What is MDS?
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Hats Off wrote:
Wade wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote: You know you are accepted when you start being called upon to give hospitality rather than receive it.

J.M.
If the minister keeps stalling on baptism and won't give you answers, holy kiss denied, no communion, when the new comer offers to help it is denied most of the time, and obviously no membership, and etc. but rather one gets more answers from member children telling the new comers children; then that is what I was more referring to when it comes to not having acceptance.

So does a family fail the test if the wife doesn't give hospitality for whatever reason?
No!

I find myself so frustrated with your situation, Wade. I don't believe it should be that way at all.

The holy kiss and communion follow after membership but discussion with ministers and other members should be entirely open. If you offered to help on our MDS project, I would welcome you with open arms!
This also frustrates me. I did not run into any of these problems.
Maybe because our pastor has an NMB father, and his wife has NMB parents as well
Maybe because there was already another NMB there
Maybe because we are older and "know the ropes"
Maybe just because we know it is where it is were God really wanted us.

It pains me whenever someone is not treated as they they should be, or pushed aside for reasons that have nothing to do with faith or life. Please do not give up.

J.M.
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Hats Off
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Hats Off »

MDS is Mennonite Disaster Service. They had volunteers at Fort McMurray rebuilding three houses that fit the MDS mandate. We have a project locally, not far from Ottawa, where they experienced extensive flooding in April and May. I ended up spending several weeks there supervising/coordinating cleanup work. Then this fall I spent another 2 weeks on repair work.
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Josh
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Re: Becoming Conservative Mennonite

Post by Josh »

And you would be received at a Midwest Mennonite Fellowship Church - many of us NMBs have been there, and some are members now. (A few transferred their membership elsewhere, usually to more conservative settings, myself included.)

You would also be received at a Holdeman church.

My advice: don’t spend time thinking about a place that had no plans to accept you. Focus on places where people actually live Christ’s gospel instead.
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