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Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:23 pm
by temporal1
i'm wondering about the conservative Anabaptist view of Paul and Barnabas' division?
one reference:
https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... rnabas-the
i was thinking of them in Wayne's thread, Page 6:
Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 5&start=50
if any interest, looking forward to replies.
Re: Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:29 pm
by Wayne in Maine
I have no idea how this is relevant to my post.
Re: Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:33 pm
by temporal1
Wayne in Maine wrote:
I have no idea how this is relevant to my post.
i was thinking of my post, in my reply to you:
i wrote:
Paul and Barnabas had a hard time. it happens to "the best of us."
did not intend to confuse, did not want to distract.
this thread is definitely a new topic.
hope that helps.
in yet another thread, i was also thinking of some words from GaryK:
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 0&start=10
GaryK wrote:justme wrote:this is how i see it.
whether max's people are a figment of his imagination or not, is not the point anymore.
the point, as i see it, is that max was caught in what boot feels are falsehoods, and max hasn't acknowledged that. max continues to portray himself as the person with all the answers and boot doesn't want folks on mn to think that max is truthful.
i watched the attempt at reconciliation. it was one-sided. max refused to participate.
so for those of you who feel that max is trying to be nice by not corresponding with boot? i disagree. it's passive aggressive, and it's a power struggle between the two of them. let them fight it out to the bitter end, and hopefully they won't take anyone else down with them when they go out in flames.
my opinion.
Fighting it out to the bitter end doesn't seem very Christlike to me.
And this is in no way an endorsement of one party over the other.
Jesus had some pretty straight forward things to say about power struggles.
Re: Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:42 pm
by ohio jones
To link to a specific post rather than a page, right click the thread name on that post and copy the link. In this case:
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=815&start=50#p20946
Might help to avoid confusion.
Re: Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:46 pm
by temporal1
thank you.
while you are here .. i have never heard a CM speak to this conflict. would you be willing?
Re: Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:07 pm
by RZehr
Paul and Barnabus are not Jesus. We don't look to Paul as a perfect example of how to live. I look at this account as a simple acknowledgement of something that happened, and not necessarily as a teaching on the best way to resolve differences. I believe it is incorrect to somehow hold this up as a proof text to condone our inability to get along and work along.
But we are not perfect either and like Paul and Barnabus, we sometimes do the same thing for the same reasons. I see it as a less than perfect option for less than perfect people. It certainly is a better option than continuing to butt heads on issues. Just decide to peacefully and humbly - even strongly - disagree on an issue that is of secondary importance and part ways in order to give each other space to do what each believes best.
This is different than parting over issues of salvation.
Re: Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:46 pm
by MaxPC
RZehr wrote:Paul and Barnabus are not Jesus. We don't look to Paul as a perfect example of how to live. I look at this account as a simple acknowledgement of something that happened, and not necessarily as a teaching on the best way to resolve differences. I believe it is incorrect to somehow hold this up as a proof text to condone our inability to get along and work along.
But we are not perfect either and like Paul and Barnabus, we sometimes do the same thing for the same reasons. I see it as a less than perfect option for less than perfect people. It certainly is a better option than continuing to butt heads on issues. Just decide to peacefully and humbly - even strongly - disagree on an issue that is of secondary importance and part ways in order to give each other space to do what each believes best.
This is different than parting over issues of salvation.
Spot on. Well said.
Re: Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:31 pm
by Bootstrap
RZehr wrote:Paul and Barnabus are not Jesus. We don't look to Paul as a perfect example of how to live. I look at this account as a simple acknowledgement of something that happened, and not necessarily as a teaching on the best way to resolve differences. I believe it is incorrect to somehow hold this up as a proof text to condone our inability to get along and work along.
But we are not perfect either and like Paul and Barnabus, we sometimes do the same thing for the same reasons. I see it as a less than perfect option for less than perfect people. It certainly is a better option than continuing to butt heads on issues. Just decide to peacefully and humbly - even strongly - disagree on an issue that is of secondary importance and part ways in order to give each other space to do what each believes best.
This is different than parting over issues of salvation.
Here is the text.
Acts 15:36-41 (ESV) wrote:And after some days Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us return and visit the brothers in every city where we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are.” Now Barnabas wanted to take with them John called Mark. But Paul thought best not to take with them one who had withdrawn from them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. And there arose a sharp disagreement, so that they separated from each other. Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus, but Paul chose Silas and departed, having been commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
What lessons would you draw from that, and how would you apply them?
What did it look like to "part ways"?
Re: Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:33 pm
by lesterb
What sticks out to me is that the church didn't divide over the issue. In modern times most often an issue like that becomes a congregational issue.
Re: Paul and Barnabas
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:37 pm
by ken_sylvania
Bootstrap wrote:RZehr wrote:Paul and Barnabus are not Jesus. We don't look to Paul as a perfect example of how to live. I look at this account as a simple acknowledgement of something that happened, and not necessarily as a teaching on the best way to resolve differences. I believe it is incorrect to somehow hold this up as a proof text to condone our inability to get along and work along.
But we are not perfect either and like Paul and Barnabus, we sometimes do the same thing for the same reasons. I see it as a less than perfect option for less than perfect people. It certainly is a better option than continuing to butt heads on issues. Just decide to peacefully and humbly - even strongly - disagree on an issue that is of secondary importance and part ways in order to give each other space to do what each believes best.
This is different than parting over issues of salvation.
Here is the text.
Acts 15:36-41 (ESV) wrote:And after some days Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us return and visit the brothers in every city where we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are.” Now Barnabas wanted to take with them John called Mark. But Paul thought best not to take with them one who had withdrawn from them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. And there arose a sharp disagreement, so that they separated from each other. Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus, but Paul chose Silas and departed, having been commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
What lessons would you draw from that, and how would you apply them?
What did it look like to "part ways"?
I wonder if it would have been wise for Paul and Barnabas to allow the church some input into their decision here. Paul and Barnabas were initially sent out by the church, but it almost seems like this second trip was being arranged more on their own.
After Barnabas and John Mark leave, then we have Paul and Silas being sent off by the church on their journey.
What blesses me the most about this account is actually the follow-up found in 2 Tim 4:11, where Paul instructs Timothy to bring Mark along, as someone who would be helpful to him in the ministry. This suggests that Paul was able to see beyond this disagreement (even though it caused him and Barnabas to part ways for a time) and recognize this young brother's potential.