Questions on the Schleitheim Confession

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Sudsy
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Questions on the Schleitheim Confession

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http://www.bibleviews.com/Schleitheim.html

A thread to consider and ask questions on the 7 articles in this confession of faith. I'll begin with the last one # 7 regarding the oath -
The oath is a confirmation among those who are quarreling or making promises
Anyone know how Michael Sattler differentiated a marriage vow from making promises by an oath ?
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Josh
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Re: Questions on the Schleitheim Confession

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Sudsy wrote:http://www.bibleviews.com/Schleitheim.html

A thread to consider and ask questions on the 7 articles in this confession of faith. I'll begin with the last one # 7 regarding the oath -
The oath is a confirmation among those who are quarreling or making promises
Anyone know how Michael Sattler differentiated a marriage vow from making promises by an oath ?
That’s a question I’ve often wondered and hope I can ask Myron Ausberger someday.
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Re: Questions on the Schleitheim Confession

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Sudsy wrote:Reading through the 'Congregational Order' I don't know about other Mennonite churches but ours especially violate number 6. I wonder why some orders reference brothers and sisters and some brothers only. Numbers 4, 6 and 7 reference brothers only. Where these items ones that excluded the women ?
6. All gluttony shall be avoided among the brothers who are gathered in the congregation; serve a soup or a minimum of vegetable and meat, for eating and drinking are not the kingdom of heaven
The Congregational Order is a list of 7 things that follow the 7 Articles of the Confession or Brotherly Agreement. I tend to view them as rules for their specific situation, which we might adapt somewhat in our context, while the Articles are more generally applicable.

The first point talks about meeting together 3 or 4 times a week. This appears to be the context for the meal in number 6. The teaching, not the meal, was the focus, so keeping the meal simple was a way of avoiding distraction. We tend to have the meal separate from the teaching or preaching, but a typical Mennonite potluck is anything but simple.

I don't see the points that fail to mention sisters as excluding them. They just weren't as sensitive to gender discrimination as some of us are. We should teleport Sudsy back to 1527 to serve as copy editor; maybe he could slip in a reference to raising hands, as they seem to have forgotten that one. :P
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Sudsy
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Re: Questions on the Schleitheim Confession

Post by Sudsy »

ohio jones wrote:
Sudsy wrote:Reading through the 'Congregational Order' I don't know about other Mennonite churches but ours especially violate number 6. I wonder why some orders reference brothers and sisters and some brothers only. Numbers 4, 6 and 7 reference brothers only. Where these items ones that excluded the women ?
6. All gluttony shall be avoided among the brothers who are gathered in the congregation; serve a soup or a minimum of vegetable and meat, for eating and drinking are not the kingdom of heaven
The Congregational Order is a list of 7 things that follow the 7 Articles of the Confession or Brotherly Agreement. I tend to view them as rules for their specific situation, which we might adapt somewhat in our context, while the Articles are more generally applicable.

The first point talks about meeting together 3 or 4 times a week. This appears to be the context for the meal in number 6. The teaching, not the meal, was the focus, so keeping the meal simple was a way of avoiding distraction. We tend to have the meal separate from the teaching or preaching, but a typical Mennonite potluck is anything but simple.

I don't see the points that fail to mention sisters as excluding them. They just weren't as sensitive to gender discrimination as some of us are. We should teleport Sudsy back to 1527 to serve as copy editor; maybe he could slip in a reference to raising hands, as they seem to have forgotten that one. :P
:lol: Yes, some of us are 'sensitive to gender discrimination' like some of those who think only men can be pastors. :lol:

Good point making the connection to number 1 order. Quite a different setting than today in many of our groups. One I would love to be part of.
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Re: Questions on the Schleitheim Confession

Post by Hats Off »

Both section XV of the Mennonite Dordrecht Confession and section VII of the Schleitheim Confession address the swearing of oaths. The Schleitheim Confession defines what swearing an oath means, and gives specific instructions on Christian procedures to avoid swearing of oaths. The Mennonite Dordrecht Confession gives only the admonition not to swear, advising Christians to just say “yes” or “no”.
https://mharbuck.wordpress.com/2010/06/ ... nfessions/
In our marriages, the Bishop asks both man and woman three questions, each of which is answered with a simple yes.
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Re: Questions on the Schleitheim Confession

Post by Hats Off »

ohio jones wrote:
Sudsy wrote:Reading through the 'Congregational Order' I don't know about other Mennonite churches but ours especially violate number 6. I wonder why some orders reference brothers and sisters and some brothers only. Numbers 4, 6 and 7 reference brothers only. Where these items ones that excluded the women ?
6. All gluttony shall be avoided among the brothers who are gathered in the congregation; serve a soup or a minimum of vegetable and meat, for eating and drinking are not the kingdom of heaven
The Congregational Order is a list of 7 things that follow the 7 Articles of the Confession or Brotherly Agreement. I tend to view them as rules for their specific situation, which we might adapt somewhat in our context, while the Articles are more generally applicable.

The first point talks about meeting together 3 or 4 times a week. This appears to be the context for the meal in number 6. The teaching, not the meal, was the focus, so keeping the meal simple was a way of avoiding distraction. We tend to have the meal separate from the teaching or preaching, but a typical Mennonite potluck is anything but simple.

I don't see the points that fail to mention sisters as excluding them. They just weren't as sensitive to gender discrimination as some of us are. We should teleport Sudsy back to 1527 to serve as copy editor; maybe he could slip in a reference to raising hands, as they seem to have forgotten that one. :P
The Preamble to the Confession and the Congregational Order clearly specifies Brothers and Sisters so this is not necessary to repeat but is assumed to always include both in general application. I read that Sattler wrote this information on the run and dealt only with the items the people were faced with at the time. The Dordrecht Confession was a more mature understanding, written under completely different circumstances.
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