Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by Wayne in Maine »

MaxPC wrote:
Hats Off wrote:
"The source of much of this is Joyce Laird, a lady from Dahlonega, GA, who is trying to generate interest and gather people to form a Plain Catholic intentional community.
Mrs. Laird was formerly a frequent poster on several Mennonite/Anabaptist Yahoo groups, which is where I first became aware of her.
Thread: Plain Catholics on Catholic Community Forum.
That comment was posted by a person who apparently had no understanding of who and what we are and certainly that person misunderstood anything Joyce Laird may have said. Joyce Laird did not start the Plain Catholics and has never proposed we join in Plain Catholic community. Plain Catholics have been in existence 100+ years. Such is the nature of forums when people don't read carefully or persist in their own ideas in spite of any response given. As you can see, people misunderstand us just as they misunderstand Anabaptists, Methodists, Baptists, etc. :lol:
Who, Max, is Joyce Laird? I saw her a lot on several Yahoo Forums, is she a "Plain Catholic" too?
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by ken_sylvania »

Valerie wrote:
Mrs.Nisly wrote:Valerie said,
I asked before and will ask again- does anyone remember which member of Mennodiscuss brought up the Plain Catholics to begin with? As I remember, Max came here AFTER the MD member brought up that they had found Plain Catholics- I don't recall how they found them, why they sought out about them or how all this took place, anyone able to tap into that archive?
I am the one who started a topic on Plain Catholics and linked it to the website Bootstrap has referenced.

I came across it in a search of Anabaptism, plain people, or plain clothing. I think I was doing a bit of historical research on Anabaptist dress, etc. I simply came across the website accidentally. I had never heard of Plain Catholics and thought I would share it with the MD community to see what they thought of it. Shortly afterward MaxPC joined the forum and contributed to the topic. I assumed he found MD through the link I had shared to what I assumed was his website.

I'm sorry, I haven't been on MN for months so I haven't seen this question raised or read the discussion around it.
Thank you, I was beginning to think I had dreamed this! My point in asking or bringing this up, was to say that Max didn't arrive here it seemed to me, to steal sheep- i remembered someone else starting the topic of Plain Catholics and he showed up shortly thereafter- thank you Mrs. Nisley- I thought I had a senior moment or something
I'm not aware that anyone has accused Max of sheep stealing or attempted sheep stealing recently. I would suggest an attempt at more direct communication. If you had simply stated that you don't believe Max arrived here to steal sheep, you likely wouldn't have gotten significant argument from anyone.
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Valerie
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by Valerie »

ken_sylvania wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Mrs.Nisly wrote:Valerie said,

I am the one who started a topic on Plain Catholics and linked it to the website Bootstrap has referenced.

I came across it in a search of Anabaptism, plain people, or plain clothing. I think I was doing a bit of historical research on Anabaptist dress, etc. I simply came across the website accidentally. I had never heard of Plain Catholics and thought I would share it with the MD community to see what they thought of it. Shortly afterward MaxPC joined the forum and contributed to the topic. I assumed he found MD through the link I had shared to what I assumed was his website.

I'm sorry, I haven't been on MN for months so I haven't seen this question raised or read the discussion around it.
Thank you, I was beginning to think I had dreamed this! My point in asking or bringing this up, was to say that Max didn't arrive here it seemed to me, to steal sheep- i remembered someone else starting the topic of Plain Catholics and he showed up shortly thereafter- thank you Mrs. Nisley- I thought I had a senior moment or something
I'm not aware that anyone has accused Max of sheep stealing or attempted sheep stealing recently. I would suggest an attempt at more direct communication. If you had simply stated that you don't believe Max arrived here to steal sheep, you likely wouldn't have gotten significant argument from anyone.
Not sure you go back to the days Max first arrived on MD?
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by ken_sylvania »

Valerie wrote:
ken_sylvania wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Thank you, I was beginning to think I had dreamed this! My point in asking or bringing this up, was to say that Max didn't arrive here it seemed to me, to steal sheep- i remembered someone else starting the topic of Plain Catholics and he showed up shortly thereafter- thank you Mrs. Nisley- I thought I had a senior moment or something
I'm not aware that anyone has accused Max of sheep stealing or attempted sheep stealing recently. I would suggest an attempt at more direct communication. If you had simply stated that you don't believe Max arrived here to steal sheep, you likely wouldn't have gotten significant argument from anyone.
Not sure you go back to the days Max first arrived on MD?
I wouldn't call that recently.
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Soloist
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by Soloist »

If the Catholics were actually unified I'd give them more credit... They all seem to have quite diverse thoughts and opinions and would fit right in with the rest of protestants.

I'm a plain catholic anabaptist. How bout you?
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temporal1
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by temporal1 »

Soloist wrote:If the Catholics were actually unified I'd give them more credit... They all seem to have quite diverse thoughts and opinions and would fit right in with the rest of protestants.

I'm a plain catholic anabaptist. How bout you?
According to the website links, they are unified under the Vatican, what more is needed?
They are traditional, mass attending Catholics, who like Amish clothing.

They are not Protestants, Quakers, LDS, or Anabaptists. They are Roman Catholic.

right? :?

personally, i find the claimed Catholicism of various Congressmen, now POTUS, more mysterious than anything i’ve read about Plain Catholics. :-|
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by MaxPC »

I think I now I understand how Trump feels with all the chatter from the Democrats. :lol:

Points of fact:
-I am not here to steal sheep.

-Never desired to steal sheep.

-I respect the Free Will of individuals.

-I was invited to the forum by a gentleman to be a source of information on Catholic practices in general and simple sharing by way of dialogue instead of the forum members having to depend on third-hand information from blogs with an agenda.

-I enjoy the company of a number of people who share my perspective regarding issues such as "no politics"; non-resistance; and belief in the fundamentals of the New Testament.

-Plain Catholics do not see themselves as Anabaptists. We are one of the many cultures in the Catholic Church. We pursue a simple life based upon farming; Biblical modesty and Biblical marriage; and the Deposit of the Faith as interpreted by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

-We are a tiny group within a 2 Billion strong church membership. We live in the "boonies" as a friend calls it. We are the Quieter of the Quiet of the land (although I am not that quiet as my friends will tell you-I like a good conversation, good coffee and a good laugh :lol:). We do not introduce ourselves as Plain Catholics any more than others introduce themselves as Polish Catholics or Italian Catholics or ... Irish/Indian/Polynesian/Whatever other blend of Catholics. We are just another culture in a very large church of a multitude of cultures.

-While we share the common ground of core tenets of faith with other Christian denominations (Jesus as Savior; the Trinity; Biblical beliefs), we recognize that in other details there are differences of perspective and beliefs. We will listen, we will share what we believe in exchange; nevertheless we refuse to argue others out of their personal beliefs. It is their Free Will journey to and with God, a dignity we respect.

In my personal perspective (not necessarily shared by other Catholics), the Catholic Church needed the Reformation & Radical Reformations to take a long and serious look at herself. Every few hundred years there needs to be a thorough inventory and house cleaning in any denomination, a revival if you will: because human nature being what it is, practices and attitudes accumulate that are not necessarily a part of healthy New Testament living.

These are the points simply put and summed. I am tired lately plus it is Lent so I am limiting my internet time. PM any questions you may have and I will try to get to them as I can. God bless you all.
Soloist wrote:If the Catholics were actually unified I'd give them more credit... They all seem to have quite diverse thoughts and opinions and would fit right in with the rest of protestants.

I'm a plain catholic anabaptist. How bout you?
Soloist, you have it surrounded in one I believe. Catholics are not, have never been completely unified due to cultural differences among the various ethnicities. We may attend the same Mass but even these days we have two camps regarding that: Traditional and Novus Ordo.
Unified? Not really.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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temporal1
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by temporal1 »

Max:
.. PM any questions you may have and I will try to get to them as I can.
God bless you all.
ok.
Heirbyadoption explained for himself, i’ll add, members come to this forum for open, public discussion. i believe PMs serve a good purpose. but, open discussion is what drives this forum.
Heirbyadoption:
:arrow: Relegating discussions to PMs is something I once did often. I have since seen the assumptions and miscommunications this often creates, I have repented of it, and I avoid it if and whenever possible.

Having said that, my pointing out your consistent refusal to give any actual evidence of Plain Catholics beyond your word and a website that offers no real documentation is hardly antagonistic - please don't attempt to label it as such. Such a portrayal is neither fair nor honest. I was speaking frankly based on what has been publicly stated (or case in point, withheld) here by you and others, but I have not done so unkindly nor slanderously, simply frankly and openly.

:arrow: Furthermore, my invitation to meet still stands, and I offer it in all sincerity.
I will reiterate it by PM if that gives it greater cognizance. ..
Page 2 / http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 53#p116253
this is a forum wherein “everything” is discussed and questioned. people are interested.
Anabaptists question themselves and each other. you aren’t an exception.

you’ve been present long enough to “know” who’s around.
i appreciate you’re not present to recruit to Catholicism. but, to be fair, Jesus intends His to recruit - to Him! part of being a Christian is to seek Christ. to invite others to seek Christ.

direct open answers to direct questions isn’t recruiting/stealing sheep. many here have been Catholic, and/or have studied Catholicism. there is interest.

from the start, MD was never a “closed shop.”

the teens began with “Where Mennonites and others connect,” there are many “others.” :)
their internet experiment has continued on well past their wildest dreams! :wave:
Last edited by temporal1 on Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:20 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by Soloist »

MaxPC wrote: Soloist, you have it surrounded in one I believe. Catholics are not, have never been completely unified due to cultural differences among the various ethnicities. We may attend the same Mass but even these days we have two camps regarding that: Traditional and Novus Ordo.
Unified? Not really.
MaxPC wrote: The website you quoted does not seem to have a Bishop as a sponsor as far as I could tell. They might have a sponsoring Bishop, I did not see one mentioned. Our Bishops are responsible for vetting any group that claims to represent Catholics in professions. Bishops are also responsible for the oversight of such groups if the group is formally affiliated with the RCC. There's more to the procedures but suffice to say, there are procedures for such recognition.
Who is your sponsoring Bishop? Or does your group not formally affiliate with RCC?
As a side note, COG was under Bishop Strickland and recently switched to another one, I just don't remember his name.

If you don't have a sponsoring Bishop, is there another loosely unified group like this without a sponsoring Bishop?
https://paxchristi.net/about-us/international-board/
This is the closest I can find and they have Bishop and an Archbishop on their board of directors.
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MaxPC
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by MaxPC »

Soloist wrote:
Who is your sponsoring Bishop? Or does your group not formally affiliate with RCC?
As a side note, COG was under Bishop Strickland and recently switched to another one, I just don't remember his name.

If you don't have a sponsoring Bishop, is there another loosely unified group like this without a sponsoring Bishop?
https://paxchristi.net/about-us/international-board/
This is the closest I can find and they have Bishop and an Archbishop on their board of directors.
Catholicism is never simple. It is rarely straightforward without an understanding of background, hierarchy and the like.

Hopefully I can break this down simply, not because you are simple in the head but because our procedurals are complex and would give God a headache if that is possible.

Sponsorship by a Bishop is for formal organisations that represent the Catholic faith in various and sundry missions.

Cultural groups, like ourselves, are Catholic, can even be said to informally represent the Catholic Church after a fashion, just as Italian Catholics, et al. do so. Cultural groups do not have sponsoring Bishops.

Now here is the tricky bit: if a cultural group of Catholics were to organise into a formal group representing the
Church
then indeed, they would need the sponsorship as a means of accountability and oversight. Local neighborhood associations of Catholics do not qualify as a formal organisation.

Examples:
The Down East Italian Catholic social group does not need a Bishop for oversight. They are like-minded Catholics who chum together and do not represent the Church in a formal effort or organisation. Plain Catholics fall into this kind of category. Cultural groups do not accept donations in the name of the Church. Likewise, as one of those cultural groups, Plain Catholics do not accept donations.

The Italian Catholic Charitable Society is a formal group representing a charitable mission of the Catholic Church. They do need a sponsoring Bishop for oversight. As a formal organisation they may conduct fund raising efforts and volunteer recruitment. These activities require said oversight of a Bishop.

Clear as mud, I daresay. I am not sure I can make it less confusing. Not even the average born and bred Catholics completely understand it all so please do not feel badly about it.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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