Swiss Brethren?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

Post by Bootstrap »

Neto wrote:There was only one priest who ever came into the village where we lived, and he self described as a "secular priest". (I have no idea what that means.) While he did oppose the work we were doing (translation of the Scripture), we sometimes found ourselves on the same side on other issues, and I was glad for the things he did in those areas. (Examples: Opposing abusive work relationships between outsiders and the Indians, like illegal wood cutters & fishing operations that were not only illegal, but wiped out a whole species of fish on a given river, and sponsoring the demarcation of Indian lands.) Other translators in the southern part of Brazil worked closely with priests who fully supported and cheered on the gift of the Scriptures in the native languages, and used the materials in their own ministries as they became available.
One of the odd parts of working with Syrian refugees is that the mosque does great work with them, and we wind up coordinating or working together on some things. There are some services they offer that nobody else does. This has been a completely new experience for me.
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

Post by MaxPC »

Neto wrote: There was only one priest who ever came into the village where we lived, and he self described as a "secular priest". (I have no idea what that means.) While he did oppose the work we were doing (translation of the Scripture), we sometimes found ourselves on the same side on other issues, and I was glad for the things he did in those areas. (Examples: Opposing abusive work relationships between outsiders and the Indians, like illegal wood cutters & fishing operations that were not only illegal, but wiped out a whole species of fish on a given river, and sponsoring the demarcation of Indian lands.) Other translators in the southern part of Brazil worked closely with priests who fully supported and cheered on the gift of the Scriptures in the native languages, and used the materials in their own ministries as they became available.
Yes our priests will differ in personality from each other just as pastors do. A "secular priest" simply means he is not a member of a religious order although that term isn't used anymore. The correct term is "diocesan priest" to distinguish from religious orders. I wonder if he was really a priest or someone who impersonated a priest knowing that in those hinterlands rarely would the diocese check on him? No matter. In our Vatican committees for Scripture translation we also empaneled Protestant scholars to help.

Back to the Swiss Brethren: are there books/treatises written by Swiss Brethren that you would recommend? Any topic or theme will do.
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

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MaxPC wrote: Back to the Swiss Brethren: are there books/treatises written by Swiss Brethren that you would recommend? Any topic or theme will do.
In addition to books/treatises that are recommended, which groups descended from the Swiss Brethren are seen as maintaining their original identity?
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

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There is nobody who runs around identifying themselves as “Sweizerbruderen”.
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

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Josh wrote:There is nobody who runs around identifying themselves as “Sweizerbruderen”.
Now that would be an interesting name for a new congregation! :)
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

Post by MaxPC »

ken_sylvania wrote:
Josh wrote:There is nobody who runs around identifying themselves as “Sweizerbruderen”.
Now that would be an interesting name for a new congregation! :)
Yes it would!

Any books/treatises that are recommended reading on Swiss Brethren and their descendents?

Which groups descended from the Swiss Brethren are seen as maintaining their original identity of separation from the world in their: confession of faith (I'm assuming Schleitheim but I could be wrong); and in plain dress. Of course they wouldn't be called Swiss Brethren - or maybe they would. :D
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

Post by Hats Off »

Old Order Mennonites and Amish are descendants of the Swiss Brethern but have adopted the Dutch Dordrecht Confession of Faith. It is more comprehensive and a century newer than the Schleitheim Confession.
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:There is nobody who runs around identifying themselves as “Sweizerbruderen”.
But the Swiss Mennonite Conference very much identifies with this heritage, and have a legitimate claim to being historically descended from them. I think you would find the same core beliefs and variation you have among Mennonites as a whole among them, though. But I do think they identify themselves as descendents of the Swiss Brethren.
MaxPC wrote:Which groups descended from the Swiss Brethren are seen as maintaining their original identity of separation from the world in their: confession of faith (I'm assuming Schleitheim but I could be wrong); and in plain dress. Of course they wouldn't be called Swiss Brethren - or maybe they would. :D
Did the Swiss Brethren dress any differently from anyone else? Perhaps more simply, I'm trying to remember if they wrote much about clothing. I don't think the Schleitheim Confession mentions clothing. And I think today's plain Mennonites and Anabaptists are probably all significantly different from the original Swiss Brethren in many ways.

Incidentally, I assume that a Catholic would not accept what the Schleitheim Confession does say. Much of it is fundamentally at odds with Catholicism (and some with Protestantism).
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

Post by MaxPC »

Hats Off wrote:Old Order Mennonites and Amish are descendants of the Swiss Brethern but have adopted the Dutch Dordrecht Confession of Faith. It is more comprehensive and a century newer than the Schleitheim Confession.
Are there books/treatises that you would recommend?

Both the Schleitheim and Dordrecht confessions share common theological ground with our theology. Both are excellent.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Re: Swiss Brethren?

Post by Hats Off »

Dress was not as much of an issue in the first centuries of Anabaptistism. There was one style of clothes for the ruling and priestly class and another for the working class. Swiss and Dutch tailors were warned against making clothes in the style of the nobles for the common people but aside from the Amish not allowing buttons, clothes were not a big issue. In those days there were matters of much greater concern.

Thorstein Veblen in his book "The Theory of the Leisure Class" published in 1899 talks of how significant changes came about following the Second Industrial Revolution.
Veblen used conspicuous consumption to depict the upper class that formed in the 19th century as a result of the Second Industrial Revolution. With the growth of living standards and the emergence of the middle class during the 20th century this phenomenon appeared in far more households and individuals whose consumption pattern is governed by demonstrative assets, rather than actual, practical utility.
This trend also applied to clothing which resulted in more attention given to clothes by the descendants of the Swiss Brethern who did not want to be seen as part of the upper class.
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