MennoNet.com

In this thread RZehr mentions the Swiss Brethren. I'm interested in learning more about them: who their descendants are today; their current dress standards, ordinances, etc.

RZehr wrote: Most of our church and the churches we are a part of trace back to the Swiss Brethren.

The majority of Mennonites and Amish in eastern Canada and U.S. are from Swiss Brethern background. The majority of Mennonites in Western Canada and U.S. are of Dutch heritage, the Menno Simons branch. Perhaps I am not right when I use the word majority, but I believe this is generally correct. I did not look at any statistics to support this idea.

Its been a long time since I studied anything on the Swiss Brethren and I'm not knowledgeable much beyond being familiar with the names (George Blaurock, Conrad Grebel, Felix Manz, Michael Sattler) and the big picture. I don't know all the details of what each one believed or wrote.

This is a pretty good over view in my opinion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Brethren

Thank you both

This caught my eye in the wiki article:

On the basis of Sola scriptura doctrine, the Swiss Brethren declared that since the Bible does not mention infant baptism, it should not be practiced by the church. This belief was subsequently refuted by Ulrich Zwingli. Consequently, there was a public dispute, in which the council affirmed Zwingli's position. This solidified the Swiss Brethren and resulted in their persecution by all other reformers ...

...The Swiss Brethren became known as Mennonites after the division of 1693, a disagreement between groups led by Jacob Amman and Hans Reist. Many of the Mennonites in France, Southern Germany, the Netherlands and North America, as well as most Amish descend from the Swiss Brethren.

So Zwingli opened his own can of worms so to speak when while he still supported infant baptism, other reformers banned it when they took his proposed reforms a few steps further? The wiki article on him says he was killed in battle.

Now a question: RZehr, does your fellowship trace from Amman or from Reist?

I can't answer that question for each person in the group, but probably Reist since I don't know of any Amish (Amman) in my own ancestry.

RZehr wrote:I can't answer that question for each person in the group, but probably Reist since I don't know of any Amish (Amman) in my own ancestry.

Thank you, that helps me understand a bit better.

I have often used this term (Swiss Brethren) to distinguish them from my own heritage, which is Dutch Mennonite (and also known as Russian Mennonite, because of the years my people spent as aliens in the Russian Empire, living in what is now the free country of Ukraine). At the time I was starting college (1974), the only 'Dutch Mennonite' congregations east of the Mississippi River (to my knowledge) was a group of 8 or so African-American Mennonite congregations that made up the South East Conference of the Mennonite Brethren (Carolinas). This was the result of early missionary work done there by the Kreimer Mennonite Brethren, who merged with the MBs in around 1960.

The opposite (no Swiss Brethren west of the Mississippi) was not true even then, because Amish had started settlements in Oklahoma & Kansas at least as early as 1910. (We Dutch Mennonites did not arrive in the US until 1873. Some of my great grandparents were on that first ship, or maybe on that side of my family, it was my great great grandparents - not sure.)

Neto wrote:I have often used this term (Swiss Brethren) to distinguish them from my own heritage, which is Dutch Mennonite (and also known as Russian Mennonite, because of the years my people spent as aliens in the Russian Empire, living in what is now the free country of Ukraine). At the time I was starting college (1974), the only 'Dutch Mennonite' congregations east of the Mississippi River (to my knowledge) was a group of 8 or so African-American Mennonite congregations that made up the South East Conference of the Mennonite Brethren (Carolinas). This was the result of early missionary work done there by the Kreimer Mennonite Brethren, who merged with the MBs in around 1960.

The opposite (no Swiss Brethren west of the Mississippi) was not true even then, because Amish had started settlements in Oklahoma & Kansas at least as early as 1910. (We Dutch Mennonites did not arrive in the US until 1873. Some of my great grandparents were on that first ship, or maybe on that side of my family, it was my great great grandparents - not sure.)

It's quite a complex history in some ways, isn't it?

MaxPC wrote:So Zwingli opened his own can of worms so to speak when while he still supported infant baptism, other reformers banned it when they took his proposed reforms a few steps further? The wiki article on him says he was killed in battle.

He was being nibbled at from both ends, if the worm is the relevant analogy. Many people were leaving his church and cleaving to the Anabaptist movement (who of course did not practice infant baptism, and persuaded others to abandon it, but had no power to ban it, nor did they desire to do so with the political tools Zwingli exercised). On the other end, Catholics were up in arms at the reforms he did make, and it was they who massacred the Zurich army in the second battle of Kappel, where he died.

Hats Off wrote:The majority of Mennonites and Amish in eastern Canada and U.S. are from Swiss Brethern background. The majority of Mennonites in Western Canada and U.S. are of Dutch heritage, the Menno Simons branch.

RZehr wrote:Its been a long time since I studied anything on the Swiss Brethren and I'm not knowledgeable much beyond being familiar with the names (George Blaurock, Conrad Grebel, Felix Manz, Michael Sattler) and the big picture. I don't know all the details of what each one believed or wrote.

This is a pretty good over view in my opinion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Brethren

The names on both branches have been mentioned quite a bit in the Mennonite churches I have been in. How many churches are cleanly on one side of the divide? Are most influenced by both branches?

If you attended a church, what would tell you which branch it was most influenced by? What differences would affect actual practice?