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Hats Off wrote:

Sudsy wrote:

Bootstrap wrote:
This is interesting, and I'd like to hear your longer reply. What defines plainness?

Me too, I am confused on what this 'plainness' is all about as it isn't a word I find in the NT and it seems in one sense, Christianity is far from being 'plain'. If Jesus came to give us abundant life of unspeakable joy and peace, it can't mean that.

My guess would be it refers to a way of life that doesn't put the world's values in material stuff and position (quite unlike the prosperity gospel). But it also sounds like a drab looking appearance dress wise and possessions wise linked with being humble. How off am I on this ?

Way off.

I guess for myself, I have chosen to live intentionally 'not fancy' as far as lifestyle is concerned, instead of intentionally 'plain'. This comes out at a slightly different place than what Hats Off's version does. I can respect Hats Off's version but I prefer my version. No offence to Hats Off intended.
I have found I generally don't have to take conscious thought when making lifestyle choices but it has become a more or less natural tendency.

I feel that modesty is a biblical teaching. Modesty includes simplicity. It includes avoiding costly array. It includes not drawing attention to yourself, whether by wearing form fitting clothing, or revealing clothing, or merely flashy clothing.

But put it all together and to the world it looks "plain." Or unattractive. Unfortunately, a lot of Christians get caught in that trap.

Bootstrap wrote:

Josh wrote:I'll give Boot a longer reply, but I want to make it clear I think plainness exists outside the scope of Swiss / Dutch / German culture.

This is interesting, and I'd like to hear your longer reply. What defines plainness?

"Plain" is a term sociologists, ethnologists, and people who study religions use to describe groups of Christians such as the one I am a part of. So I use the same term.

I think a Christian needs to practice nonresistance, avoid vanity, covetousness, and jealousy, and needs to follow scriptural edicts such as the veiling and footwashing.

Pretty much the only people who do that are "plain" Anabaptists. Most people who independently start doing that stuff, like Followers of the Way in Boston, end up associating with other plain Anabaptists since they no longer fit in well with the rest of so-call Christianity.

Sudsy wrote:Me too, I am confused on what this 'plainness' is all about as it isn't a word I find in the NT and it seems in one sense, Christianity is far from being 'plain'. If Jesus came to give us abundant life of unspeakable joy and peace, it can't mean that.

Well, "plain" really just means "simple" or "not complicated". The term has stuck.

If the term "plain" offends you, may I suggest the Church of God in Christ, Mennonite? We don't call ourselves "plain", but just call ourselves "Christians" or "followers of Jesus" or "the church of God". Of course, that can end up sounding very arrogant since it implies you're "better" than other Christians. Most Mennonites want to seem humble so they avoid making overt statements that they are better than others.

My guess would be it refers to a way of life that doesn't put the world's values in material stuff and position (quite unlike the prosperity gospel). But it also sounds like a drab looking appearance dress wise and possessions wise linked with being humble. How off am I on this ?

You can find some extremist groups of people who have a drab, slovenly appearance, but that is rare, and almost never exists in a stable community. Most plain groups that I think of actually look rather organised and put-together and attractive, they just try to do so in a manner that is being a good steward of time and resources and they really want to avoid drawing excessive amounts of attention to the self through immodesty.

I understand not drawing attention to oneself by dressing immodest but dressing so out dated with the culture is also drawing attention to ourselves, is it not ? So, if on lookers don't know the teachings of Jesus that one is attempting to follow, they view this as a group, of some sort, looking for special attention through their dress. I think in our city if you asked the average person why some women wear cape dresses (often with very modern running shoes), they would likely say it is a tradition of their religion and the most common comment I hear are 'those are Mexican Mennonites'. I doubt very few associate this way of dressing as connected to Christ following as they see other Christians who do not dress this way.

I do think the scripture does say we are to draw attention to our good deeds in a way that God is understood to be at work in and through us and also our love for other Christians. Those are our main identifiers and even these without words of explanation don't really separate us from good living unbelievers.

Curious - if someone asks why do you wear clothes so different from our culture norms, how would you answer this in a way that points to Christ ? I don't doubt there is a way but then if they asked, so why don't other Christians dress like that, what would you say ?

Sudsy wrote:I understand not drawing attention to oneself by dressing immodest but dressing so out dated with the culture is also drawing attention to ourselves, is it not ?

Yes, but who changed? Is it not those who simply follow the surround society?
Should everyone in the world feel pressure to dress "dated"?

Reminder: This is a debate-free thread.

Ernie wrote:

Sudsy wrote:I understand not drawing attention to oneself by dressing immodest but dressing so out dated with the culture is also drawing attention to ourselves, is it not ?

Yes, but who changed? Is it not those who simply follow the surround society?
Should everyone in the world feel pressure to dress "dated"?

A question for clarity - are you saying that, for instance, a cape dress was the original woman's dress for her to be modest ? Or that suspenders did not originate in the early 1800's from a change in men's fashion ? Not sure I understand.

I have enjoyed reading the posts on this thread. I think group identification is an important function of plain garb. I can testify that it makes a great difference in the way outsiders relate to a plain-dressed person and the difference is not always positive in its impact.

I am quite sure that visible non-conformity does attract the attention of others. But when one has worn plain clothes for much of one's life, it doesn't seem like something to fret over. I take the attention for granted and go about my business, most of the time, without worrying about it.

I have attended a conservative Mennonite church for fifteen years since my wife and I were disfellowshipped from our Quaker congregation. One of the things which puzzles me is the lack of definite symbols of non-conformity among many conservative Mennonite men. Their "nonconformity is most obvious when they appear in a group (e.g.with no shorts, no tattoos, no long hair).

Ernie wrote:I think there are tens of thousands of Plain Anabaptists who would gladly switch to a plain Christian church, if they knew of a plain Christian church that had nearly all the good values of Plain Anabaptists plus some additional good values.
Beyond that, I think there would be hundreds of thousands of Christians worldwide who would want to be part of such a church if it existed.
Until then, Plain Anabaptists will continue to defend their beliefs and way of life until someone comes up with a better alternative.

I agree completely.
I believe the lack of such a plain Christian Church is perhaps why many Protestants (and others) turn to Jehovah's Witness. In fact, it was my most favored option until I was led to Anabaptism. Speaking for the "hundreds of thousands of Christians worldwide who would want to be part of such a church if it existed", that is.