Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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mike
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by mike »

Our church typically offers some compensation to a guest speaker we have invited, particularly if they have had to travel an hour or more. It's not always accepted, but we offer it.
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silentreader
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by silentreader »

silentreader wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
Chris wrote:Yes, concrete. Church X calls a brother Y from 4 states away to give a presentation at their church. Happens all the time with meetings... Brother Y doesn't want to ask if he will be compensated for fuel/travel expenses.... Is there a "known standard" that brother Y is compensated for gas, costs of travel, etc.?

I know at my church another post said there is generally an offering lifted which covers way more... I'm just curious if this generally applies to greater "Mennodom".
I have never been a plain Mennonite. Here's how I see it, but it may not fit plain Mennonite culture, I just don't know their culture well enough to know.

If Brother Y would have difficulty making the trip without compensation, I think he should go ahead and say that. "Thou shalt not muzzle a threshing ox." Brother Y may worry that they do not have enough of a relationship to discuss this, and be afraid to offend Brother X, but if they don't have a relationship, I don't think Brother Y should feel all that obligated to to it at his own expense if it would cause him financial hardship.

If Brother Y is relatively well off and suspects the church might not be, I think he should take that into account - it's rarely good for a church to take without giving back, but Paul relied on his abilities as a tentmaker and decided not to burden the churches he served.

How different is that from the way that plain Mennos might think about it?
In our usage if someone is requested to come from a distance, and/or for a series over several days, he would be reimbursed from a fund we have for that, and there is usually a 'love-offering' taken as well. Our group is large enough that the 'love-offering' could be fairly substantial. This is done regardless of the person's financial situation. (The fund is part of the 'tithe', the 'love offering' is not).
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Josh
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by Josh »

Mennonites used to not reimburse for travel expenses at all in the 1800s. John Holdeman was frequently broke since he travelled a lot and did so on his own dime, and apparently other preachers often found themselves in the same situation. It was considered normal back then.

A good question is what patterns we see in the New Testament.
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by ohio jones »

Josh wrote:A good question is what patterns we see in the New Testament.
When Jesus went to Jerusalem for revival meetings, his transportation (Mt 21:2), lodging (Mt 21:17), and food (Mt 26:18) were provided. One of his sermons was on paying to God the things that belong to him (Mt 22:21). Of course, there was also great personal sacrifice involved (Heb 9:26) that we do not expect from our visiting ministers.
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Chris
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by Chris »

Let me ask if there really are Menno Churches in America that are in rough financial shape - especially in areas where there are a lot of Mennos. Shipshewana, IN, Millersburg, OH, Lancaster... or just PA in general?

Anyway, I'm just curious about this as I believe there is a greater opportunity for ministry if there is some type of standard to help the traveler. Many people can "afford" to buy gas to and from somewhere, but at the same time, they are not "well off". I mean $600 in gas won't break their bank, but it may make them think twice to go so often if it costs them hundreds each time...

What if he has meaningful message and is requested monthly or bi-weekly? Something like that could harm a brother's financial ability to deliver a message or presentation badly. Especially if he has a big family. Even his work wages could be affected.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by Bootstrap »

Hi Chris,

I really suggest that the preacher discuss this directly with the person who invited him. On a public forum, we can only speculate, and he shouldn't confuse our answers with the answers of the congregation that invited him. A lot of relationships go bad when people speculate about what the other person might think or do instead of talking directly to the people involved.

I think you have heard that many congregations provide expenses. I think he could say something like, "can you cover my expenses?" If they say no, he can decide if he still wants to preach. But it's certainly not an unreasonable question to ask in my world.

If it's an unreasonable question to ask in plain Mennodom, I hope someone will chip in, because I do not want to be giving bad advice. But this is certainly the answer in the part of the Kingdom I live in.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by Bootstrap »

Chris wrote:What if he has meaningful message and is requested monthly or bi-weekly? Something like that could harm a brother's financial ability to deliver a message or presentation badly. Especially if he has a big family. Even his work wages could be affected.
The first time a minister is asked to speak, this is not really the issue. In my world, at least, it's an introduction to see if they want to hear more. And often, this is the first step toward deciding whether to call a pastor - when we were seeking a pastor for the last Mennonite church I was a member of, we asked perhaps 7 pastors to come preach to us, prayed, and reached clarity on who we wanted to call.

We did pay all of their expenses, and I'm sure nobody would have been offended if a pastor had asked (though we probably told them before they asked). But the first step is to pray to see if God has something to say to that particular congregation, and for them to discern whether they feel the pastor has something to say to them. Ideally, the congregation should be clear enough about the financial end that nobody has to think much about it, because it's not the issue you want to focus on. But if they don't bring it up, gracious and direct communication are probably good.
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Chris
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by Chris »

Another one just to consider,

If the pastor is travelling cross country, and has a family, would those things be at least "considered" in his travel expenses if he brings his family?
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by lesterb »

Chris wrote:Another one just to consider,

If the pastor is travelling cross country, and has a family, would those things be at least "considered" in his travel expenses if he brings his family?
It depends on the group. I have a friend who is a minister in the EPMC, and who is (or was) financially not very well off. He was asked to travel most of the way across the US to preach for a week in a large EPMC congregation. In return for his sacrifice, they gave him a quilt. He told me himself that he and his wife joked about finding a way to stuff the quilt in the gas tank. He said that if his father hadn't given him some money to get home, they would have been parked under a tree in Iowa somewhere, destitute.

He's not the kind to beg, so I'm sure that the local church didn't know what his financial status was. But I suppose they had the idea that it's wrong to pay someone for preaching. And most PA Easterns are so well off that it probably never crossed their mind that someone might be as close to the edge financially as my friend was.

His father, by the way, wasn't part of the EPMC. He used some of his "ill gotten gains" from his Social Security check to help them out [an exact quote, if I remember correctly).
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Re: Meetings & Travelling preachers, are they compensated?

Post by RZehr »

Chris wrote:Another one just to consider,

If the pastor is travelling cross country, and has a family, would those things be at least "considered" in his travel expenses if he brings his family?
My opinion is that it would be in line for the pastor to ask about this prior to accepting the speaking engagement. Or even after accepting the engagement. Paying bills is not a dirty little secret that shouldn't be discussed between brethren.

Just because the richer traveling preachers can easily afford not to ask about the financial details, doesn't make it inappropriate for the question to be asked.
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