A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Dan Z
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A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by Dan Z »

A war is brewing!

Polarization is on the rise in this country like I've never seen before (perhaps akin to the 1960s and 1860s)...and so is anger, hate, distrust, suspicion, pride. Voices on the left and right are getting more vitriolic, irrational and increasingly prone toward violence. The echo chamber of the internet certainly isn't helping...people can easily find affirmation for whatever they believe - rational or not. This is an emotive process - more about belonging, tribalism, prejudices than about thoughtful and reasoned discourse.

This polarization is sucking in and dividing many (most) Christians as well - and I suspect it will get worse before it get's better. Unfortunately, it is pulling in some (many) of our Anabaptist brethren also - who, tho they may claim to be non-resistant - are unsuspectingly enlisting in the fight.

In the midst of this growing societal dysfunction, and as a result of our non-resistance and our strong two-kingdom theology, I believe we Anabaptists have a unique opportunity to point to a better way in Jesus - but only if we are prepared for what is ahead.

This thread is dedicated to discussing how we Anabaptist might respond proactively to what is, I suspect, just the beginning of turbulent times:

Here are a few discussion starters;
  • 1) How do we insulate ourselves and our faith community from the ideological propaganda designed ON BOTH SIDES to lure us into taking sides in the cultural/political war raging all around us?

    2) How do we address those within our ranks who have already been sucked in, especially those who are actively recruiting other culture-warriors?

    3) How can we best bear witness to the way of Christ, including taking a stand for his ethical teachings, without being pulled into a fight that isn't ours? Is passivity or silence in the face of wrong an option?

    4) How should we minister to the casualties of the vitriol that is going on around us?

    5) How do we prepare for the attacks on us that inevitably will come to us for not choosing sides?
Maybe we can learn some lessons from the witness of our Anabaptist forebears who faced turbulent times in the past.
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temporal1
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Re: A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by temporal1 »

i'm not Anabaptist, but, in this past week, i'm happy to say, what i witness on the internet/in airwaves, as opposed to venturing out IRL, is refreshingly opposite. i have noticed this all along, happy to say, it continues.

my world is very mixed, culturally speaking.
i see everyday people of all descriptions just wanting to live+work in peace.
i do not see Nazis or BLM. or Westboro Baptists. or others.

i have been happy that MN, as a forum, has not been as politically-driven as it was in the past.
i've tried to distance myself from those topics.

i think the word, "war," is 'way too overused. it's thrown around for all sorts of meanings.

when i was young, i recall my father being highly disgruntled with Pres Johnson's words, "War on Poverty." people who had lived through actual wars, had lost family members, etc., see things differently from those who recite words they have no personal experience with. my father did not "go to war" in the military, but, all from those years were personally impacted. i'm sure CO's were not left out.

esp when emotions are running high - that's a good time to hold back, as has been repeated on this forum since Charlottesville. the whole thing is being used for political posturing, esp for the one goal of unseating our present POTUS. that's not a worthy or respectable endeavor to get mixed up in. not for anyone.

the "standard" i refer to when thinking about a correct response to media events is: Nickel Mines.
they got it right, nothing to regret going forward.

this is THE message i would like to convey to all Christian leaders, the NM's response can be the chosen Christian response. it doesn't require an Anabaptist label. it requires the will to say "no" to the media circus, certainly not to actively engage it, revel in it.

to accomplish this, pastors, priests, church elders, must have the vision+strength to lead away from the circus. if they were to seriously test it, the results might surprise. :)

many Christians reach the threshhold of this type of response .. only to succomb to the temptations to give into media+politicians. so close! - yet so far away. i always hope next time will be better.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
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Re: A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by Bootstrap »

Dan Z wrote:A war is brewing!
Yup.
Dan Z wrote:This thread is dedicated to discussing how we Anabaptist might respond proactively to what is, I suspect, just the beginning of turbulent times:
Thanks. I think this is an excellent way to kick off an important discussion. I think you are asking the right questions. I'm out of time for MN today, I'll weigh in tomorrow.
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Re: A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by mike »

One thing that might help our response is to realize that much of this "societal war" may be skewed from reality by constant and intense media exposure. I do not believe either the hyperbole of the media headlines or of Donald Trump's speeches and tweets.

I liked what Temp said:
temporal1 wrote:what i witness on the internet/in airwaves, as opposed to venturing out IRL, is refreshingly opposite. i have noticed this all along, happy to say, it continues.

my world is very mixed, culturally speaking.
i see everyday people of all descriptions just wanting to live+work in peace.
i do not see Nazis or BLM. or Westboro Baptists. or others.
A lot of the hyperbole is just the regular old pied pipers that are always trying to grow ratings, viewers, and followers; and perhaps even by accepting the idea that we are in a societal war, we have fallen into their trap. I don't want to downplay what you're saying necessarily, Dan, but I wonder if things are really as bad out there in the real world as it seems on the news media.
Dan Z wrote:5) How do we prepare for the attacks on us that inevitably will come to us for not choosing sides?
Not choosing sides? Just ask Trump how that worked out for him. :P All kidding aside, I really think that the best way to prepare for these kinds of attacks is to genuinely divest ourselves from any kind of political involvement, and to focus on our kingdom life and work. If we mirror the peace and joy of the kingdom of God, people who are sick of the conflict will know where to go when they grow disillusioned with the world's kingdoms.
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Re: A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by Sudsy »

Dan Z wrote:A war is brewing!

Personally I don't think a domestic war is brewing. I think the media wants to portray that it is and if they keep it up they may make things worse than they really are. But I'll give a response to these starters.

This thread is dedicated to discussing how we Anabaptist might respond proactively to what is, I suspect, just the beginning of turbulent times:

Here are a few discussion starters;
  • 1) How do we insulate ourselves and our faith community from the ideological propaganda designed ON BOTH SIDES to lure us into taking sides in the cultural/political war raging all around us?

    I don't like the word 'insulate' as to me, it sounds too much like non-engagement with the world. But using it as how to keep the other kingdom's ideologies from getting a hold on our thinking, I would say the scripture says to guard our hearts and if we feel a need to take any worldly ideological and political side or if one of these sides disturb and distract us from our mission, then we should focus on obeying Philippians 4:8 - "Brothers and sisters, think about the things that are good and worthy of praise. Think about the things that are true and honorable and right and pure and beautiful and respected." In other words, turn off the junk that can do us harm. Guard our hearts.

    2) How do we address those within our ranks who have already been sucked in, especially those who are actively recruiting other culture-warriors?

    A few off the top of my head - Encourage them to consider where fear comes from. Talk more about being a stranger and an ambassador in a foreign land. Talk about what our main mission is to recruit citizens into the Kingdom. Remind them that were sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. Encourage one another to share where real peace is found.

    3) How can we best bear witness to the way of Christ, including taking a stand for his ethical teachings, without being pulled into a fight that isn't ours? Is passivity or silence in the face of wrong an option?

    I don't think it is the way of the Master to be passive or silent but we can't make anyone live up to Jesus teachings without them first being born again and receiving a changed heart and desire to follow Jesus. I don't believe arguing with people how they should live ethically achieves anything. We are not called to conform people but rather to be the means God uses to transform people by the renewing of the mind.

    4) How should we minister to the casualties of the vitriol that is going on around us?

    Love them. Tell them about the Saviour who is our only hope of this kind of thing not causing more casualties.

    5) How do we prepare for the attacks on us that inevitably will come to us for not choosing sides?

    If this means attacks by other believers, if who we are is our identification in Christ and not by those judging us, then any attacks won't be any big deal. The peace that passes all understanding will be experienced.
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Re: A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by Hats Off »

Dan Z wrote: This thread is dedicated to discussing how we Anabaptist might respond proactively to what is, I suspect, just the beginning of turbulent times:

Here are a few discussion starters;
  • 1) How do we insulate ourselves and our faith community from the ideological propaganda designed ON BOTH SIDES to lure us into taking sides in the cultural/political war raging all around us?
    By not reading or listening to the news or watching television, we insulate ourselves from the propaganda

    2) How do we address those within our ranks who have already been sucked in, especially those who are actively recruiting other culture-warriors?
    Because of our teaching on voting and taking part in politics, this is not a problem in our communities.

    3) How can we best bear witness to the way of Christ, including taking a stand for his ethical teachings, without being pulled into a fight that isn't ours? Is passivity or silence in the face of wrong an option?
    Again, by avoiding politics we will not be pulled into the fight which isn't ours.

    4) How should we minister to the casualties of the vitriol that is going on around us?
    We need to help them see the way of peace as a preferred lifestyle.

    5) How do we prepare for the attacks on us that inevitably will come to us for not choosing sides?
    I have hopes that the climate in Canada is different from that in the US. We don't have the NRA and we can't accept the politics of the Republican party. Our American friends would vote Republican but when i do hear the positions of the two parties, so often the Democratic positions seems more comfortable.
Maybe we can learn some lessons from the witness of our Anabaptist forebears who faced turbulent times in the past.
By living a quiet and peaceful lifestyle, we don't need to tell people around us where we stand; they already know what they expect of us. They would be surprised if we took Sudsy's approach of the more "in your face" attitude. I am not saying we should remain unawares of what is going on but relative non-involvement will accomplish most for most of us here in Canada. IMO.
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temporal1
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Re: A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by temporal1 »

mike wrote:One thing that might help our response is to realize that much of this "societal war" may be skewed from reality by constant and intense media exposure. I do not believe either the hyperbole of the media headlines or of Donald Trump's speeches and tweets.

I liked what Temp said:
temporal1 wrote:what i witness on the internet/in airwaves, as opposed to venturing out IRL, is refreshingly opposite. i have noticed this all along, happy to say, it continues.

my world is very mixed, culturally speaking.
i see everyday people of all descriptions just wanting to live+work in peace.
i do not see Nazis or BLM. or Westboro Baptists. or others.
A lot of the hyperbole is just the regular old pied pipers that are always trying to grow ratings, viewers, and followers; and perhaps even by accepting the idea that we are in a societal war, we have fallen into their trap. :(
I don't want to downplay what you're saying necessarily, Dan, but I wonder if things are really as bad out there in the real world as it seems on the news media
.
Dan Z wrote:5) How do we prepare for the attacks on us that inevitably will come to us for not choosing sides?
Not choosing sides? Just ask Trump how that worked out for him. :P All kidding aside, I really think that the best way to prepare for these kinds of attacks is to genuinely divest ourselves from any kind of political involvement, and to focus on our kingdom life and work. If we mirror the peace and joy of the kingdom of God, people who are sick of the conflict will know where to go when they grow disillusioned with the world's kingdoms.
i will try to find something i read from Herman Cain on the hype .. i can't recall his words just now. i believe he expanded a little on your point above.

reading from Herman Cain, Dr Ben Carson, Dr A King, Charles Barkley just made a statement (i don't often read anything from him, but, he has influence) .. i'm interested in reading views from black leaders who are working to be constructive, who "live like i do," in a culturally mixed world where people value one another .. these are not promoting aggression and destruction.

since when does destruction of others, others' property, etc., build anything positive? it doesn't work like that. those are empty "gains." no happiness will come of it. that's false.

i'm aware, those i named above, receive lots of criticism+hate, themselves! they are accused of awful things, just because they refuse to recite the script handed to them. :(
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Sudsy
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Re: A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by Sudsy »

Hats Off wrote: By living a quiet and peaceful lifestyle, we don't need to tell people around us where we stand; they already know what they expect of us. They would be surprised if we took Sudsy's approach of the more "in your face" attitude. I am not saying we should remain unawares of what is going on but relative non-involvement will accomplish most for most of us here in Canada. IMO.
Perhaps you could explain to me how the approach I posted is 'an "in your face" attitude' ? I don't think of sharing the Gospel in an "in your face" way but rather as an invitation to come to know the Prince of Peace. Why would this be a 'surprise' other than perhaps other Christians have not shared the Gospel in words with them.
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Re: A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by Hats Off »

The people that I work with - those who are not practising Christians know how I feel about these issues without me telling them. I find I can have a much better relationship with them if I don't say much. So many people make us think that we should be talking more - when living seems to be more effective than talking. Our minister was troubled that he was not taking advantage of every opportunity to talk to people about his faith. i told him he should just be ready to give an answer when asked and not to feel guilty because he didn't force himself to do what others made him feel he should do.

i did not intend to be mean or controversial when I said "in your face."
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Re: A Kingdom Response to the Societal War

Post by Sudsy »

Hats Off wrote:The people that I work with - those who are not practising Christians know how I feel about these issues without me telling them. I find I can have a much better relationship with them if I don't say much. So many people make us think that we should be talking more - when living seems to be more effective than talking. Our minister was troubled that he was not taking advantage of every opportunity to talk to people about his faith. i told him he should just be ready to give an answer when asked and not to feel guilty because he didn't force himself to do what others made him feel he should do.
I didn't take you to be mean by you comment and appreciate your reply. I am curious though about feeling pressured by others to talk about their faith. I do think we need to encourage one another to share our faith and many of us struggle to get over the fear of man to give them the greatest news they could ever hear. Sometimes our quietness is speaking loudly that we just don't care.

If I feel forced to share my faith because others think I should, then I would question if I really believed my faith was so important to share that I just couldn't help myself from sharing it. I have been involved in churches where the unchurched became Christ followers and their new first love for Christ was so real to them that they couldn't help but want everyone to hear about their new faith. We would try to quickly disciple them in how to have or get answers when they did. Whenever I see this happening, I have to look at my current lack of sharing and realize, like the letter in Revelation to the church in Ephesus, that I have lost my first love. My parents both became believers from unchurched backgrounds. They never seemed to have lost that first love and throughout their lives were involved in sharing Jesus whenever they could leading folks to Christ.

I think it also begs the question of our belief in hell and being eternally separated from God. If I am to love others as I love myself, then would I not try to share my faith with others in hope they too will receive the gift of eternal life ? Would I not go to them rather than wait that perhaps someday they may come to me ? Do we think the 'go ye' applies to all of us ore just a select few ? In my case, my concern for other's eternal destination has it's ups and downs. Sometimes I am very selfish and show little active concern for the souls of others. Other times, reminded of my parents example and a more eternal mindset, I look for opportunities to share Jesus.

What we need are churches reaching the unchurched out where the unchurched habit along with demonstrating this new radical Kingdom way of living that demonstrates to society that the Kingdom of God is one they can enter here and now and experience the peace, love and joy that can't be found in kingdoms of this world. Christianity is about engaging the world not withdrawing and saying 'if you are interested you know where we are'. Right ?
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