Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Valerie
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by Valerie »

"When we are reproached for anything by others, it should not irritate us nor make us despondent, but it should humble us, being morally worthless, and should make us turn to God with fervent prayer that He may heal our infirmities and by His grace supply us with that which is wanting in us. To grow irritated, especially when we are reproached with weaknesses, really existing in us, would be only adding one malady to another, one passion to another; it would mean that we are sick with the voluntary blindness of self-love, which does not wish to see its own dark side, and leads to voluntary destruction. To despond is also most foolish, for by the help of God's grace the Christian can always change for the better if he wishes; and it is for this purpose that the Lord sends us accusers, in order that they may open our spiritual eyes, and that we may see the deformity of our deeds, and seeing, correct ourselves, but not for the purpose of casting us into despondency. Despondency is itself a sin and the work of the evil one. Reproof ought to produce in us the 'godly sorrow, which worketh repentance to salvation' (2 Cor. 7:10), and not the sorrow of self love."
St. John of Kronstadt
"My Life in Christ"
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by Bootstrap »

Valerie wrote:"When we are reproached for anything by others ...
I agree with the quote. I assume that you aren't saying that the whole Raca! You fool! You idiot! thing is the same as reproaching someone for something as a Christian. It's a different thing.
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temporal1
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote:
Valerie wrote:"When we are reproached for anything by others ...
I agree with the quote. I assume that you aren't saying that the whole Raca! You fool! You idiot! thing is the same as reproaching someone for something as a Christian. It's a different thing.
it's always wise to seek the spirit, not the letter. some on MD are particularly gracious in accepting "reproach" from any source; others find offense, where there is none, then respond in defense, or even offense.

one example (of many on this forum) of a consistent gracious spirit, even when under "reproach," is Bill Rushby. i would happily share examples of his gracious responses in trying situations, but, the ones i'm thinking of are lost with MD.

there is a special place for Christian reproach within the brotherhood.
but there's no exception clause for the balance of life experiences.

this, from what i read and witness, it's the higher road at all times. ymmv
Last edited by temporal1 on Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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temporal1
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

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Valerie wrote:"When we are reproached for anything by others, it should not irritate us nor make us despondent, but it should humble us, being morally worthless, and should make us turn to God with fervent prayer that He may heal our infirmities and by His grace supply us with that which is wanting in us.
To grow irritated, especially when we are reproached with weaknesses, really existing in us, would be only adding one malady to another, one passion to another; it would mean that we are sick with the voluntary blindness of self-love, which does not wish to see its own dark side, and leads to voluntary destruction.
To despond is also most foolish, for by the help of God's grace the Christian can always change for the better if he wishes; and it is for this purpose that the Lord sends us accusers, in order that they may open our spiritual eyes, and that we may see the deformity of our deeds, and seeing, correct ourselves, but not for the purpose of casting us into despondency.
Despondency is itself a sin and the work of the evil one.
Reproof ought to produce in us the 'godly sorrow, which worketh repentance to salvation' (2 Cor. 7:10), and not the sorrow of self love."
St. John of Kronstadt
"My Life in Christ"
honestly, Valerie, not sure the spirit of the matter could be better spelled out. thank you.
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

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temporal1 wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
Valerie wrote:"When we are reproached for anything by others ...
I agree with the quote. I assume that you aren't saying that the whole Raca! You fool! You idiot! thing is the same as reproaching someone for something as a Christian. It's a different thing.


it's always wise to seek the spirit, not the letter.


I agree. Did I miss something about the spirit or the letter of what Valerie wrote? I agreed with the quote - "he who hates reproof is stupid". But when you reprove someone, obviously, you don't want to call them Raca! You fool! You idiot! That's not something a good teacher does. I assume Valerie would agree.
temporal1 wrote:some on MD are particularly gracious in accepting "reproach" from any source; others find offense, where there is none, then respond in defense, or even offense.
Did I miss something? I did not interpret Valerie's post as reproach or reproof. I didn't think I had taken offense or responded in defense or offense. I really didn't think her post was about me at all. And I wanted to be careful not to encourage anyone to confuse reproof with the subject of this thread.

Maybe the spirit of what I wrote wasn't clear in the words I wrote.
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Valerie
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by Valerie »

Bootstrap wrote:
Valerie wrote:"When we are reproached for anything by others ...
I agree with the quote. I assume that you aren't saying that the whole Raca! You fool! You idiot! thing is the same as reproaching someone for something as a Christian. It's a different thing.
Actually, the quote from St. John was just something I had read, and thought of some comments in this topic- really though you are right- reproach is a different thing that what the OP was talking about, but while we are on the subject of offenses I thought I'd slip this one in- it spoke to me, thought it might others-
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

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Valerie wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:I agree with the quote. I assume that you aren't saying that the whole Raca! You fool! You idiot! thing is the same as reproaching someone for something as a Christian. It's a different thing.
Actually, the quote from St. John was just something I had read, and thought of some comments in this topic- really though you are right- reproach is a different thing that what the OP was talking about, but while we are on the subject of offenses I thought I'd slip this one in- it spoke to me, thought it might others-
Hmmm, I was speaking to those on the giving end, warning against the whole Raca! You fool! You idiot! thing. Sounds like you were thinking of people on the receiving end, who may sometimes feel like that's what's going on when they are actually being reproved and should be learning something instead of feeling aggrieved.

Feeling offended can mean a lot of different things. Sometimes it means someone is just being a jerk. Sometimes it means someone is acting as a wise Christian mentor. Sometimes it can even be persecution as a Christian, which means we should rejoice and stick to our guns. Sometimes someone is reproving us, trying to teach us how to behave better - then it's important to discern if what they are trying to teach us is good and true, opening our hearts and minds to be able to discern, and leaving grievance aside. Sometimes someone is just correcting some facts, and it's good to listen and figure out what is true, letting go of the feeling of being offended.

Feeling offended doesn't really tell you the right response or the right thing to do, it just gets your attention. After that, it's time to think, pray, and discern how best to respond. If you don't take the time to do that when you are feeling aggrieved, sin is not far away.
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temporal1
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by temporal1 »

temporal1 wrote:
PastorRich wrote:A "foe" list? This makes me smile! While I am sure I may have been added to one or two in years past I have never put anyone on it. I rather tend to enjoy those with whom I disagree most.

My wife has often commented my diverse groups of friends of which sometimes the only thing we have in common is we don't have much in common! :D
that's rich. :D
where is PastorRich, and why doesn’t he post? .. :?
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temporal1
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by temporal1 »

PastorRich wrote:A "foe" list? This makes me smile! While I am sure I may have been added to one or two in years past I have never put anyone on it. I rather tend to enjoy those with whom I disagree most.

My wife has often commented my diverse groups of friends of which sometimes the only thing we have in common is we don't have much in common! :D
Where is PastorRich, and why doesn’t he post? :?
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by Sudsy »

Valerie wrote:"When we are reproached for anything by others, it should not irritate us nor make us despondent, but it should humble us, being morally worthless, and should make us turn to God with fervent prayer that He may heal our infirmities and by His grace supply us with that which is wanting in us. To grow irritated, especially when we are reproached with weaknesses, really existing in us, would be only adding one malady to another, one passion to another; it would mean that we are sick with the voluntary blindness of self-love, which does not wish to see its own dark side, and leads to voluntary destruction. To despond is also most foolish, for by the help of God's grace the Christian can always change for the better if he wishes; and it is for this purpose that the Lord sends us accusers, in order that they may open our spiritual eyes, and that we may see the deformity of our deeds, and seeing, correct ourselves, but not for the purpose of casting us into despondency. Despondency is itself a sin and the work of the evil one. Reproof ought to produce in us the 'godly sorrow, which worketh repentance to salvation' (2 Cor. 7:10), and not the sorrow of self love."
St. John of Kronstadt
"My Life in Christ"
Personally I don't care for the phrase 'the Lord sends us accusers'. Satan is the accuser of the brethren - Rev 12:10. I prefer God uses some believers through His Spirit to point us to the scriptures that correct and sometimes rebuke us. I like the suggestion that when we are corrected we ask that person for a scriptural base for this correction and then test the spirits to see if this is of God. I think there can be a sense of sorrow to not measuring up to something that is not Spirit directed. I agree a 'godly sorrow' is needed that results in repentance.
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