Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Valerie
Posts: 5309
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by Valerie »

Sudsy wrote:
Valerie wrote:"When we are reproached for anything by others, it should not irritate us nor make us despondent, but it should humble us, being morally worthless, and should make us turn to God with fervent prayer that He may heal our infirmities and by His grace supply us with that which is wanting in us. To grow irritated, especially when we are reproached with weaknesses, really existing in us, would be only adding one malady to another, one passion to another; it would mean that we are sick with the voluntary blindness of self-love, which does not wish to see its own dark side, and leads to voluntary destruction. To despond is also most foolish, for by the help of God's grace the Christian can always change for the better if he wishes; and it is for this purpose that the Lord sends us accusers, in order that they may open our spiritual eyes, and that we may see the deformity of our deeds, and seeing, correct ourselves, but not for the purpose of casting us into despondency. Despondency is itself a sin and the work of the evil one. Reproof ought to produce in us the 'godly sorrow, which worketh repentance to salvation' (2 Cor. 7:10), and not the sorrow of self love."
St. John of Kronstadt
"My Life in Christ"
Personally I don't care for the phrase 'the Lord sends us accusers'. Satan is the accuser of the brethren - Rev 12:10. I prefer God uses some believers through His Spirit to point us to the scriptures that correct and sometimes rebuke us. I like the suggestion that when we are corrected we ask that person for a scriptural base for this correction and then test the spirits to see if this is of God. I think there can be a sense of sorrow to not measuring up to something that is not Spirit directed. I agree a 'godly sorrow' is needed that results in repentance.
I think that 'the Lord sends us accusers' is probably with the realization that the tempter must get permission from the Lord- (thinking of Job), my understanding, and I cannot think of the Scripture to support it is, that God is the one who allows the fallen angels to accuse us- God has not eliminated them from the spiritual realm that gives them their freedom (but by permission) to tempt, accuse, etc- please correct me if I misunderstand that-
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Sudsy
Posts: 5856
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
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Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by Sudsy »

Valerie wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
Valerie wrote:"When we are reproached for anything by others, it should not irritate us nor make us despondent, but it should humble us, being morally worthless, and should make us turn to God with fervent prayer that He may heal our infirmities and by His grace supply us with that which is wanting in us. To grow irritated, especially when we are reproached with weaknesses, really existing in us, would be only adding one malady to another, one passion to another; it would mean that we are sick with the voluntary blindness of self-love, which does not wish to see its own dark side, and leads to voluntary destruction. To despond is also most foolish, for by the help of God's grace the Christian can always change for the better if he wishes; and it is for this purpose that the Lord sends us accusers, in order that they may open our spiritual eyes, and that we may see the deformity of our deeds, and seeing, correct ourselves, but not for the purpose of casting us into despondency. Despondency is itself a sin and the work of the evil one. Reproof ought to produce in us the 'godly sorrow, which worketh repentance to salvation' (2 Cor. 7:10), and not the sorrow of self love."
St. John of Kronstadt
"My Life in Christ"
Personally I don't care for the phrase 'the Lord sends us accusers'. Satan is the accuser of the brethren - Rev 12:10. I prefer God uses some believers through His Spirit to point us to the scriptures that correct and sometimes rebuke us. I like the suggestion that when we are corrected we ask that person for a scriptural base for this correction and then test the spirits to see if this is of God. I think there can be a sense of sorrow to not measuring up to something that is not Spirit directed. I agree a 'godly sorrow' is needed that results in repentance.
I think that 'the Lord sends us accusers' is probably with the realization that the tempter must get permission from the Lord- (thinking of Job), my understanding, and I cannot think of the Scripture to support it is, that God is the one who allows the fallen angels to accuse us- God has not eliminated them from the spiritual realm that gives them their freedom (but by permission) to tempt, accuse, etc- please correct me if I misunderstand that-
I guess I draw the line where saying God sends accusers is not the same as God not protecting us from being accused. Job spoke as if God was 'slaying him' with all those attacks but we know from the start it was God allowing satan to test Job. In James we read where God does not tempt anyone to sin. But God uses these attacks by satan to teach us perseverance and we are to go through them with joy knowing God is at work even in what satan and our flesh does to throw us off. And sometimes a mis-lead believer can be where the challenge comes from.

Romans 8:28 - God is at work in all things to bring about good. Even the things that war against our soul. God is at work using the means of a Spirit lead believer to give me guidance and God is also at work teaching me how to discern that a believer operating in the flesh is trying to guide me.

I think certain scriptural texts like 'lead us not into temptation' can make one think God leads us into being tempted but then James says that is not so. Interesting discussion. Other thoughts ?
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Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
silentreader
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:41 pm
Affiliation: MidWest Fellowship

Re: Raca! You fool! You idiot!

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
Personally I don't care for the phrase 'the Lord sends us accusers'. Satan is the accuser of the brethren - Rev 12:10. I prefer God uses some believers through His Spirit to point us to the scriptures that correct and sometimes rebuke us. I like the suggestion that when we are corrected we ask that person for a scriptural base for this correction and then test the spirits to see if this is of God. I think there can be a sense of sorrow to not measuring up to something that is not Spirit directed. I agree a 'godly sorrow' is needed that results in repentance.
I think that 'the Lord sends us accusers' is probably with the realization that the tempter must get permission from the Lord- (thinking of Job), my understanding, and I cannot think of the Scripture to support it is, that God is the one who allows the fallen angels to accuse us- God has not eliminated them from the spiritual realm that gives them their freedom (but by permission) to tempt, accuse, etc- please correct me if I misunderstand that-
I guess I draw the line where saying God sends accusers is not the same as God not protecting us from being accused. Job spoke as if God was 'slaying him' with all those attacks but we know from the start it was God allowing satan to test Job. In James we read where God does not tempt anyone to sin. But God uses these attacks by satan to teach us perseverance and we are to go through them with joy knowing God is at work even in what satan and our flesh does to throw us off. And sometimes a mis-lead believer can be where the challenge comes from.

Romans 8:28 - God is at work in all things to bring about good. Even the things that war against our soul. God is at work using the means of a Spirit lead believer to give me guidance and God is also at work teaching me how to discern that a believer operating in the flesh is trying to guide me.

I think certain scriptural texts like 'lead us not into temptation' can make one think God leads us into being tempted but then James says that is not so. Interesting discussion. Other thoughts ?
Could I word that a little differently?
But God gives us the option of learning perseverance through the attacks of Satan....
0 x
Noah was a conspiracy theorist...and then it began to rain.~Unknown
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