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Heirbyadoption wrote:To rephrase the last statement before this, secrets not staying secrets is no justification for the often well-earned gossip reputation of Plain folk and the irreparable harm it (the actual gossip) can and has done to various individuals, families, and groups.

Not just Plain people. And not just secrets. The way we talk about other people says a lot about our own hearts.

What are good guidelines for how we talk about people who are not present? What passages teach about this? What experiences can people share?

It says a lot about our hearts! Among the plain people, I have noticed:

1) People who have nothing good to say about others. Always see the negative, rarely the positive. If you want the dirt on someone, go to these folks!

2) People who refuse to see the negative in others. Trying to get them to see gross negatives in someone else is met with opposition.

3) The rarest of the rare. People who can weigh both sides objectively.

Maybe this answers your question, maybe it doesn't.

steve-in-kville wrote:It says a lot about our hearts! Among the plain people, I have noticed:

1) People who have nothing good to say about others. Always see the negative, rarely the positive. If you want the dirt on someone, go to these folks!

I can guarantee you many of those people are not plain, and I know some of them. This is clearly a very serious sin in the Bible, and one that we often don't take seriously enough. Often, the gossip is a much more serious sin than whatever people are gossiping about.

Proverbs 16:28
A contrary person spreads conflict, and a gossip separates close friends.

Proverbs 17:9
Whoever conceals an offense promotes love, but whoever gossips about it separates friends.

Proverbs 26:20
Without wood, fire goes out; without a gossip, conflict dies down.

Romans 1:29
They are filled with all unrighteousness, evil, greed, and wickedness. They are full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, and malice. They are gossips ...

2 Corinthians 12:20
For I fear that perhaps when I come I will not find you to be what I want, and you may not find me to be what you want. Perhaps there will be quarreling, jealousy, angry outbursts, selfish ambitions, slander, gossip ...

1 Timothy 5:13
At the same time, they also learn to be idle, going from house to house; they are not only idle, but are also gossips and busybodies, saying things they shouldn’t say.

steve-in-kville wrote:2) People who refuse to see the negative in others. Trying to get them to see gross negatives in someone else is met with opposition.

3) The rarest of the rare. People who can weigh both sides objectively.

Maybe this answers your question, maybe it doesn't.

I suspect you are thinking of a specific kind of situation that is different than I was. When are you imagining the need to make sure that people see gross negatives in other people? When that is necessary, who do you think should share, and how?

I do think there are times this is important - if someone is dishonest in business dealings, or creepy around pretty women, or whatever. But in general, if someone fails to notice someone else's shortcomings, I don't feel the need to correct that.

In general, I would correct someone face to face before I would ever say something to someone else. And if that didn't work, I would approach that person with a few other people to see if that helps. Matthew 18.

Bootstrap wrote: In general, I would correct someone face to face before I would ever say something to someone else. And if that didn't work, I would approach that person with a few other people to see if that helps. Matthew 18.

Hmmm.... good idea for a thread all in its own!

steve-in-kville wrote:

Bootstrap wrote: In general, I would correct someone face to face before I would ever say something to someone else. And if that didn't work, I would approach that person with a few other people to see if that helps. Matthew 18.

Hmmm.... good idea for a thread all in its own!

Looks like someone started that thread ...

There's a story about an elderly Quaker lady at Barnesville OH who always avoided saying bad things about anyone. This exasperated one of her acquaintances who was a gossip.

One day the two were talking, and the gossip said something "juicy" about someone they both knew. The elderly lady replied: 'oh, but he has such nice children!" The gossip fired back: "I believe thee could say something nice about the Devil himself." The elderly lady paused for a moment and said: "well, I do have to admire his persistence!"

on this topic, something i've wondered about.
boot, you were an MD member years before i, so, i'm not sure about this.
during my time, several times yearly, in different ways+words, you describe your first wife and marriage.

has she ever been present to describe her side of things?
does she know her first marriage is discussed on this forum?
i have no idea.

i wonder, tho, because you do sometimes ask questions about talking about others not present, even suggesting gossip might be a problem, etc., for others. (this, over years, i have no examples.)

details vary, sometimes, you share lots of details, emotions, depending on the context.

a recent example:
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 9&start=10

.. Let me share my background: My first wife eventually left me to marry another woman.
I don't know if she could have changed her desires or not, I think she tried. We basically agreed to have a sexless marriage until she left me after 23 years. That required both of us to be willing to live without sex. I don't know if there is any way she could have changed her desires, we did not find one.

on a strictly personal note, if i were a second wife, i'm not sure i'd be happy about these details being openly shared, either. but, that's a personal matter.

i write about my family some, too.
mostly hoping they will not read until after i'm gone.
then, hoping they will read with mercy.
(they know about my forum affliction.)

In all fairness to Boot I suspect he has said very little about his wife on here that he has not said directly to her. I never sensed he was sharing as a way to get even but simply as a way to help us better understand where he is coming from.

appleman2006 wrote:In all fairness to Boot I suspect he has said very little about his wife on here that he has not said directly to her. I never sensed he was sharing as a way to get even but simply as a way to help us better understand where he is coming from.

i agree. i'm sure they've talked!
just have wondered how this factors in his own general forum questions about gossip and talking about those not present.

appleman2006 wrote:In all fairness to Boot I suspect he has said very little about his wife on here that he has not said directly to her. I never sensed he was sharing as a way to get even but simply as a way to help us better understand where he is coming from.

Thanks - that's how I see it. I would find it a little fake to discuss some topics without letting people know I have that kind of background.

temporal1 wrote:i agree. i'm sure they've talked!
just have wondered how this factors in his own general forum questions about gossip and talking about those not present.

When I describe my first marriage, I also try not to say things about my former wife that she would not agree with. She has said the same things to other people, sometimes in public. To me, that's one way of avoiding presenting "my side of the story". You'll notice that I also avoid overly-emotional language when I describe this kind of thing, and usually don't go into much detail. This is also one of the big reasons I use a pseudonym - I don't want the things I say to be easily tracked back to her. And I don't think I'm telling this to tear her down.

I'm not sure I always get this kind of thing right, but I try, and I think it's an important thing to consider. Gossip is an important sin in the New Testament. And I try to take it seriously.