Talking about other people who aren't here

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
temporal1
Posts: 16279
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by temporal1 »

right.
i'm not aware of anyone posting on this forum that would view it differently.
i may have missed something.
i have wondered why this is a repeating interest for you, in light of your posts about your first wife, who, i believe, has never been present. if it did not recur as it does, i would have thought nothing of it. because it recurs, i wonder about her side of it. (my experience is, current spouses, and former spouses, generally have their own take on things.) :)

at times, you have posted words to others to the affect that you were uncomfortable reading about those not present, even suggesting this may be gossip. i concur; i think of your first wife. i would not go so far as to suggest to you or others you are engaging in gossip.

(if memory serves) your posts on this are now less emotional than they were on MD.

after posting my question above, i searched the word "gossip" in your posts.
most pertinent is this one to Valerie:
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... sip#p17062
boot wrote:
.. It's a lot like the kind of gossip you often hear if people are having problems in their marriage.
Most people have only heard one side, they sympathize with one partner or the other, they quickly defend the one they prefer and demonize the other.
The gossips don't have any responsibility for fixing the marriage, they don't even have the opportunity to hear each side out carefully and seek points of reconciliation or find ways to put the marriage on the right track again, the gossip is emotional and one sided, and it just pours gas on the fire ..
i agree with this.

in former times, when divorce was not the norm, i recall 2 wise, but not always welcome, sayings family elders would often draw on when disgrunted family members would come complaining about their marriages:

"You made your bed, now lie in it;"
"There are 2 sides to every argument."


honestly, i think those two sayings probably saved many marriages.
but, no-fault divorce has changed a lot.

:arrow: no intention to trail-off on divorce! no.
just wondered about this particular seeming inconsistency, and how it works out.

on MD, there were several very good examples of unhappy, disgruntled, frustrated spouses who visited with specific questions about their marriages/families. honestly, the responses to these were fascinating (to me.)

on this forum, which so often represents conflicting opinions, on these matters, it was encouraging how responses were similar, constructive, and helpful, in real-life ways (not just rhetorical, but, common sense, Christian, scriptural responses.) interesting, it can be hard to find that sort of counsel in the world. it can "feel" impossible! sadly, those threads are lost.

well. anyway. now you have a thread on this question, so, i thought this would be the place to ask.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:after posting my question above, i searched the word "gossip" in your posts.
most pertinent is this one to Valerie:
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... sip#p17062
boot wrote:
.. It's a lot like the kind of gossip you often hear if people are having problems in their marriage.
Most people have only heard one side, they sympathize with one partner or the other, they quickly defend the one they prefer and demonize the other.
The gossips don't have any responsibility for fixing the marriage, they don't even have the opportunity to hear each side out carefully and seek points of reconciliation or find ways to put the marriage on the right track again, the gossip is emotional and one sided, and it just pours gas on the fire ..
i agree with this.
Me too.

As I have said, even after my first wife left me and married another woman, I don't want to pour gas on the fire like that. Not because I think there's any realistic chance of reconciliation.

Incidentally, I don't think the other person has to be absent for it to be gossip. Would you do me a favor? I would prefer to choose when I want to talk about my prior marriage and divorce. It's a sensitive topic, I'm sure you understand.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
temporal1
Posts: 16279
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote: .. As I have said, even after my first wife left me and married another woman, I don't want to pour gas on the fire like that. Not because I think there's any realistic chance of reconciliation.

Incidentally, I don't think the other person has to be absent for it to be gossip. Would you do me a favor? I would prefer to choose when I want to talk about my prior marriage and divorce. It's a sensitive topic, I'm sure you understand.
to my understanding, no one has ever mentioned your divorce aside from you on this public forum. as you counsel others, what's posted in public is up for discussion. i'm not sure what you mean by this request .. but, even with this question i asked about here, i don't intend to discuss your marriages.

my question is about "Talking about people who aren't here." which is another topic of interest to you (according to your posts.)

this forum is a unique mix of personal and public.
it's easy to "feel" it's less public than it is. occasionally, it becomes clear, it is public.

aside from this particular moment, i have no plans to reference your marriages.
not sure why you would think that.

i believe most, or all, feel this is personal for you, and, no one wants to impose.
it's a topic you repeat, no one replies (that i'm aware.)
it's a non-issue.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:i believe most, or all, feel this is personal for you, and, no one wants to impose.
Thanks.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
steve-in-kville
Posts: 9515
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:36 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Affiliation: Hippie Anabaptist

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by steve-in-kville »

temporal1 wrote: "You made your bed, now lie in it;"
"There are 2 sides to every argument."
A very seasoned Pennsylvania State Police detective had one that should be added to this list:

Sometimes one person's story is just.... well, a story!
0 x
I self-identify as a conspiracy theorist. My pronouns are told/you/so.

Owner/admin at https://milepost81.com/
For parents, railfans, and much more!
temporal1
Posts: 16279
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by temporal1 »

steve-in-kville wrote:
temporal1 wrote: "You made your bed, now lie in it;"
"There are 2 sides to every argument."
A very seasoned Pennsylvania State Police detective had one that should be added to this list:
Sometimes one person's story is just.... well, a story!
this is a bunny trail, but ..
i don't recall circumstances, but, when we had teens at home, i remember speaking with a police officer, saying, something-like, "i'm just not sure if he-she is telling the truth" .. i really don't recall details.

the officer interrupted and said, "if it's a teen, if their lips are moving, they are lying!" :shock:
i recall being shocked, but, then, again, i could empathize with his jaded view. :P
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23826
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by Josh »

If your wife divorces you and marries someone else, it's not exactly gossip if you share that fact when someone asks.
0 x
temporal1
Posts: 16279
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote:If your wife divorces you and marries someone else, it's not exactly gossip if you share that fact when someone asks.
no, of course not. has anyone asked? :?
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by Bootstrap »

Back to the topic of the thread: Some questions:
  • 1. How do you handle it when someone comes to you with the dirt on someone else and you want to avoid joining them in sinful gossip? Are there good ways to do this that will point out what is inappropriate, and are more likely to edify the gossip than to offend?

    2. What is it that makes this kind of gossip tempting? What is the emotional payoff in gossip?

    3. What is the difference between sinful gossip and pastoral care, prayer, and other ways that we should be talking about people who may have flaws?

    4. When prayer and talking about others get blurred - e.g. praying about someone else who is wrestling with some sin - what guidelines do you use?
Does the Bible give us guidelines here? Can we feel out some useful guidelines based on experiences we have had?
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Talking about other people who aren't here

Post by Bootstrap »

Bill Rushby wrote:One day the two were talking, and the gossip said something "juicy" about someone they both knew. The elderly lady replied: 'oh, but he has such nice children!" The gossip fired back: "I believe thee could say something nice about the Devil himself." The elderly lady paused for a moment and said: "well, I do have to admire his persistence!"
When I was in 9th grade or so, my mother and father carpeted our dining room room - at the time, where we lived, few people had a carpeted room, and my father had a schoolteacher's salary and my mother stayed at home caring for 4 children and a grandfather, so we didn't have a lot of extra money most of the time. A few months later, I wanted to make my mother a present, so I made her a huge ice candle, using a carpet roll as the mold. Unfortunately, it leaked all over, and wax is really hard to get out of carpet. Honestly, I never got over feeling bad about that.

Five years ago, I was talking to my mother, and out of the blue she said, "remember that beautiful ice candle you made me for Christmas?" I said, "yeah ... I always felt bad about spilling wax all over your new carpet", and she replied, "I don't remember that". And she really didn't. And suddenly, I had a history of creating something nice for her that wasn't eclipsed by spilling wax.

So I get Bill's point. But back to his story (in the quotes), shouldn't we also warn people against the devil? And perhaps point out his lies? How do we balance this?
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Post Reply