Valerie wrote:I am tempted to start a thread about what the early writers wrote about Apostolic Succession- how it was supposed to work. Yet by Scripture alone- I can attest to that happening already as being conveyed by the Apostles themselves by their own statements (namely Apostle Paul) and then the early church fathers & writers emphasized this as well. It doesn't mean there weren't some bad ones that entered the Church, to be sure- but that does not take away from the original intention.
Didn't we do that several times on MennoDiscuss?
Let's face it: Mennonites and Protestants think the doctrine of Apostolic Succession is wrong, and we think that the churches who believe most strongly in it went seriously off the rails, which is why Mennonites and Protestants exist. A significant difference is whether you interpret Scripture or the early writings as establishing bureaucratic entities or saying that God gifts people to exercise specific offices. Another significant difference is whether you accept post-Constantinian writings designed to explain that their structures are ordained by God.
The Mennonite model(s) of what it is to be a church are at the heart of our understanding of our faith. Do we really have to keep debating this over and over? Is anything new being said?
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Bootstrap wrote:Let's face it: Mennonites and Protestants think the doctrine of Apostolic Succession is wrong, and we think that the churches who believe most strongly in it went seriously off the rails, which is why Mennonites and Protestants exist.
Let me add one thing: I think that there is much more room for fellowship across church boundaries than there was in the time of the Reformation and the Radical Reformation. But I think that fellowship is best when we focus on what unites us and not what divides us. The doctrine of Apostolic Succession is clearly one of those things that divide us.
But our unity is in Jesus Christ, not in having the same opinion about every doctrine, religious practice, and church structure. We can be a testimony to the world if we have the love of Jesus Christ even if we have different opinions. Harping against other people for having different opinions is not a testimony to the world.
I would rather not dwell on the areas where we disagree with other churches. I disagree with enough Catholic doctrine that I wouldn't be able to join that denomination, but I know good Christians who are Catholic. I don't come to a Mennonite forum to debate Catholic doctrine.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Apostolic succession to us is when we do our best to live in obedience to Jesus' teaching and attempt to live in the spirit of what the apostles taught. We really don't care about a direct line back to Peter and James, other than in being faithful to the teachings of scripture. We would cite 1 Cor. 3:11 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." That is sufficient for us.
No doubt I am jumping into the middle of this conversation, but I just want to lift a thought concerning the following statement:
"Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."
First of all, I would like to know when the Magisterium was first formed? It would seem that they equate to a board of theologians. Many denominations seem to have a board or conference similar to the Magisterium. Most denominations want to establish their right beliefs and rules for behavior. They all want to claim that they are lead of the Holy Spirit and have the blessing of the Early Apostles. Everybody can't be right, can they?
Pilgrim wrote:Most denominations want to establish their right beliefs and rules for behavior. They all want to claim that they are lead of the Holy Spirit and have the blessing of the Early Apostles. Everybody can't be right, can they?
Obviously, you couldn't possibly be Catholic and Mennonite at the same time. I do think you can be Christian in either denomination. Then again, you can't be all the various kinds of Mennonite at the same time either ;->
But don't you think God can legitimately lead different groups of believers in different ways? Can't we practice as God has taught us without passing judgement on others, as long as they are up front and honest about their beliefs without being confrontational?
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Heirbyadoption wrote:Dear people, please read the original post.
I didn't think the original post was a problem.
Lol. I was referring to this in particular.
This thread is for specific questions regarding Catholic doctrine and practice, especially for Max, as he has expressed himself willing to share as our "resident Catholic".
Heirbyadoption wrote:Lol. I was referring to this in particular.
This thread is for specific questions regarding Catholic doctrine and practice, especially for Max, as he has expressed himself willing to share as our "resident Catholic".
How would you like the rest of us to treat this thread?
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Heirbyadoption wrote:Lol. I was referring to this in particular.
This thread is for specific questions regarding Catholic doctrine and practice, especially for Max, as he has expressed himself willing to share as our "resident Catholic".
How would you like the rest of us to treat this thread?
Heirbyadoption started this with the intention of asking Catholic questions, especially of Max-
I had some questions but then people started commenting on my comments- this takes it off the original intention of the thread-
(by the way Boot, I said I was tempted to start a thread on Apostolic Succession- not like formerly discussed on MD- but from David Bercot's Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs which had actual quotes from early writers about 'Apostolic Succession' just to share what was actually said back then about this pattern.
Heirbyadoption I apologize- I'm glad you started this topic- Max says he will be absent for awhile- so probably all questions comments not specifically being related to asking Catholic questions- probably should be moved?
I was referring to this in particular.