Catholic Questions

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Heirbyadoption
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Catholic Questions

Post by Heirbyadoption »

This thread is for specific questions regarding Catholic doctrine and practice, especially for Max, as he has expressed himself willing to share as our "resident Catholic". I have been wading through the CCC lately (Catechism of the Catholic Church) with the understanding that it accurately represents HRCC doctrine/practice, and have had a few questions in connection with some of our own theology or practices; it occurs to me that some of you might share the same. But keep it civil, please.

Max~ CCC 100 states that: "The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him." Does this leave any part for the laity/congregation/brotherhood to interpret the Word of God, or is their task simply to believe and follow the interpretations they receive specifically from the Pope and bishops in communion with him?
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MaxPC
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Re: Catholic Questions

Post by MaxPC »

First allow me to apologize for this long post. As with anything in Catholic World, attention to context is emphasized.

Heir, to help with this question I'll explain how the CCC organizes information. It gives the details in each section first and at the end of the section it has an In Brief section where you find this paragraph 100 which is merely a quick summary. The way that it was designed, the CCC In Brief statements are meant more to help the scholar to locate detailed information quickly: a kind of contextual index. The CCC has a number of different types of indices to help scholars and laity find critical information they're studying.

With that in mind, once you see an In Brief statement that raises questions for you, scan the detailed paragraphs above it and in the next section. I recommend using the table of contents with paragraph numbers at this link to get an idea of the context and how each section builds upon the previous section. CCC Table of Contents with Paragraph Numbers

In the case of your question I would look at these paragraphs:
The Magisterium of the Church

85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48

87 Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me",49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
In essence the current practice is for the Magisterium to oversee translations and canons of Scripture to guard against "new" interpretations as detailed in paragraph 86 above. For example: certain sources trying to exclude the writings of Paul the Apostle from the Bible to justify a political or lifestyle agenda. The Magisterium doesn't allow these sources to change the teachings that have been handed down and accepted through the centuries from the Apostles and Christ. The Magisterium can best be described as a guardian of Biblical interpretations from the Apostles and Christ.

There are lay Catholics who participate in Bible translations and commentaries under the auspices of the Magisterium's guardianship. They've been vetted for their scholarship and fidelity to the historical interpretations. Also lay Catholics are encouraged to read their Catholic Bible 30 minutes a day or more. They're also encouraged to participate in Bible study. See this next section that explains how the laity and its study of Scripture should approach these efforts:
III. THE HOLY SPIRIT, INTERPRETER OF SCRIPTURE

109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75

110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76

111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."77

The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.78

112 1. Be especially attentive "to the content and unity of the whole Scripture". Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God's plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79

The phrase "heart of Christ" can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.80
113 2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).

114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By "analogy of faith" we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.
My personal In Brief: the Magisterium functions as Guardian of Sacred Scripture to maintain the integrity of its meaning as it has been handed down from the Apostles and Christ. It doesn't approve new translations or interpretations without first discerning their fidelity to the Apostolic teachings handed down from Christ.

With 1.2 Billion Catholics in the world, the Magisterium's role is to act as a central source of authority on Biblical teachings to guard against political or other agendas that seek to distort Biblical teachings. I'm not very familiar with Anabaptist practice on guarding Biblical interpretations from strange agendas but I'm assuming that your leadership does have some form of committee that does this. The Magisterium is a committee of trusted Bishops and the Pope: only much bigger in size than say, a local committee.

Hopefully all of this is a little more clear than mud.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Valerie
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Re: Catholic Questions

Post by Valerie »

Max, my understanding, and it makes total sense- is that the Scriptures do not need 'new' interpreting- by anyone- that the interpretations were passed down- is that what Roman Catholicism teaches?
I'm mindful of what Apostle Paul said to Timothy:
2 Timothy 2:2
King James Bible
And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
This passage seems to teach that it is NOT left to the laity to determine what Scriptures mean- or to dictate doctrine- but it should have come from those in leadership that it was entrusted to- and for them to teach laity-
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MaxPC
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Re: Catholic Questions

Post by MaxPC »

Valerie wrote:Max, my understanding, and it makes total sense- is that the Scriptures do not need 'new' interpreting- by anyone- that the interpretations were passed down- is that what Roman Catholicism teaches?
I'm mindful of what Apostle Paul said to Timothy:
2 Timothy 2:2
King James Bible
And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
This passage seems to teach that it is NOT left to the laity to determine what Scriptures mean- or to dictate doctrine- but it should have come from those in leadership that it was entrusted to- and for them to teach laity-
In Brief: Yes. We see the Bible as being complete and a fully integrated teaching of God's precepts.

Now here is the difficulty: Man is limited in understanding (I'm especially including Catholics in that statement) and there have been and will always be those who emphasize one part of the Bible over other parts; even try to rewrite it altogether. This ongoing revelation of God's Truth in Scripture that already exists is a temptation to some to think they "know it all" (now we see through a glass darkly).

That's where the role of the Magisterium as guardian is especially helpful. The Magisterium will examine and review any new claims and interpretations to this revelation of Truth in the Bible. If those claims line up with the rest of the Bible's teachings and the understanding of Christ and the Apostles, then the interpretations are accepted. If they don't line up with Apostolic teaching; only emphasize one aspect; or try to delete any part of the Bible, then those efforts are rejected.

The Magisterium's role as watchdog extends to the Pope as well: anything the Pope writes in the way of encyclicals, etc is first reviewed by a committee of the Magisterium. The Pope and the Magisterium are accountable to each other as well as to God; they are meant to keep each other honest about all matters of the Faith.

I know, clear as mud sometimes. :lol:
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
KingdomBuilder
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Re: Catholic Questions

Post by KingdomBuilder »

I met an ex-Catholic (now ex-Christian) this summer.
He said something that the "holy bread" of communion is, and must be, blessed by the priests. Is this true?
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MaxPC
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Re: Catholic Questions

Post by MaxPC »

KingdomBuilder wrote:I met an ex-Catholic (now ex-Christian) this summer.
He said something that the "holy bread" of communion is, and must be, blessed by the priests. Is this true?
In a word, yes. Our "holy bread" is called a Host or Eucharist and only an ordained priest may consecrate the Host. We have a rather long explanation for it and it can be found in the CCCs section titled Part Two: The Celebration of the Christian Mystery. I don't want to short-change you by abbreviating our theology on this important aspect of Catholic doctrine. I recommend reading the CCCs Part Two mentioned above and all of its subsections of Chapters and Articles to better understand our teaching on this matter. Please keep in mind that Part Two builds on Part One. :D Link
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Valerie
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Re: Catholic Questions

Post by Valerie »

MaxPC wrote:
KingdomBuilder wrote:I met an ex-Catholic (now ex-Christian) this summer.
He said something that the "holy bread" of communion is, and must be, blessed by the priests. Is this true?
In a word, yes. Our "holy bread" is called a Host or Eucharist and only an ordained priest may consecrate the Host. We have a rather long explanation for it and it can be found in the CCCs section titled Part Two: The Celebration of the Christian Mystery. I don't want to short-change you by abbreviating our theology on this important aspect of Catholic doctrine. I recommend reading the CCCs Part Two mentioned above and all of its subsections of Chapters and Articles to better understand our teaching on this matter. Please keep in mind that Part Two builds on Part One. :D Link

Please correct me if I am wrong here- because most of my learning about the Eucharist (Holy Communion) is from the Orthodox Church but- since they had the same beginnings, I believe the beliefs would be the same- and based on Apostolic doctrine handed down- - with Christ sending the Apostles out in representation of Himself- to build the Church- and they appointing elders in every city to be over the churches, wouldn't this be a case of each church having their own "Christ like" head of their Church? You can get that understanding from the Scriptures themselves- it's not the 'laity' but the elders & bishops were supposed to be overseers- so in keeping with the first communion- considering this:

from Matthew 26:
(26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

This instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist to be done in the Churches- which basically has been followed through since this first communion, from what I've read in early Church history-

Is that basically then how this came to be in the Catholic Church, followed by what Christ taught the Apostles?
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MaxPC
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Re: Catholic Questions

Post by MaxPC »

Valerie, you can find the answer to your queries about Catholic teachings on that topic in the CCC:
Part Two
Section Two
Chapter 3
Article 6
Paragraphs 1536-1600
:D

Folks, I'm going to be out of pocket for more than a week as we prep for the One Big Birthday Party. I'll check in when I can so please don't feel I've forgotten you; it may be a few days but I'll try to do my best to get those answers to you :wave: :pray
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Heirbyadoption
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Re: Catholic Questions

Post by Heirbyadoption »

I'm not very familiar with Anabaptist practice on guarding Biblical interpretations from strange agendas but I'm assuming that your leadership does have some form of committee that does this.
Max, actually we don't. Our fellowship (we're not solely Anabaptist, technically) has always insisted upon having no creed but the New Testament. If and when there are questions, the entire body comes together in conference to counsel together and all members have an equal voice. Our elders (the equivalent of Mennonite bishops) have no greater voice than any other, but are intended to oversee and administrate and do most of the preaching on Sundays.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Catholic Questions

Post by Heirbyadoption »

And I actually do grasp how the CCC works. But in light of this:
86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."
I find myself stepping back to CCC81/82.
81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."

"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."

The question that comes up for me here - as you (Max) understand the official position of the HRCC here, is Tradition given equal status/authority to Scripture, or is it not?
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