What's a deal-breaker for you?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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steve-in-kville
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by steve-in-kville »

Lots of really good, thought out replies. Thank you.

One thing that is a big turn-off to me is: putting our faith in the church's rules, or maybe I should say... hiding behind the church and its standards.
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Bootstrap
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Bootstrap »

steve-in-kville wrote:One thing that is a big turn-off to me is: putting our faith in the church's rules, or maybe I should say... hiding behind the church and its standards.
Me too.

I want a church that calls me to discipleship, mission, and service, not primarily to conforming to a set of rules. And I want a church that calls me to put my faith in Jesus, not primarily in the church itself.

Bonhoeffer asked a great question: Does our church appeal to the same kind of people that Jesus appealed to? Does our church offend the same kind of people that were offended by Jesus? That can sometimes tell us how much our church is acting like Jesus. If a church is mostly about something else, that's a deal breaker for me.
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Hats Off
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Hats Off »

[quote="Bootstrap"]

Me too.

I want a church that calls me to discipleship, mission, and service, not primarily to conforming to a set of rules. And I want a church that calls me to put my faith in Jesus, not primarily in the church itself.

Bonhoeffer asked a great question: Does our church appeal to the same kind of people that Jesus appealed to? Does our church offend the same kind of people that were offended by Jesus? That can sometimes tell us how much our church is acting like Jesus. If a church is mostly about something else, that's a deal breaker for me.[/quote]
Jesus talked to his own kind - the Jewish people who his earthly parents grew up with and associated with. He responded to the Pharisees "these ought you to have done and not left the other undone." In other words, he was saying "keep the commandments." Jesus did end up saying "Go into all the world" but he stayed in Israel and Judah during his ministry.
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Valerie
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Valerie »

In the broad realm of "Protestantism" (which technically includes Anabaptism) it's assumed that there will be error here and there in interpretations. The deal breaker to me is when a Pastor claims to 'know for sure' when working through passages (since denominations have technically departed from the earliest interpretations in many areas from the ancient Church) instead of humbly admitting that he could be wrong-
Also when sports is brought up at the pulpit as something of importance in a person's life (meaning a pastor's life)
A heart for the lost is of utmost importance, so if I see a lack of caring for the lost or for the poor, orphaned and widow I feel something is quite wrong-
Contemporary worship service- if it's like a concert with special affect lighting- will not return- I realize the intentions of this kind of service, just don't agree with it-
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joshuabgood
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by joshuabgood »

I have a lot of personal leeway regarding actual applications being either prescribed or not. Where I get uneasy, is with, as has been messaged, a group that has a certain kind of fundamentalist absolutism with "canned" answers to every question and willing to call folks heretics that don't see things the same way.

I also get queasy if folks are politically active, either leftwing or rightwing.

I also get uneasy if their is a top down authoritarian, male-dominated, "authority" structure as opposed to a congregational approach.

I also get uneasy if most of the church is passively in the pews while the professionals "preach" and "lead worship."
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temporal1
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by temporal1 »

Hats Off wrote:Jesus talked to his own kind - the Jewish people who his earthly parents grew up with and associated with.

He responded to the Pharisees "these ought you to have done and not left the other undone."
In other words, he was saying "keep the commandments."

Jesus did end up saying "Go into all the world" but he stayed in Israel and Judah during his ministry.
this is something that is often ignored or overlooked.
only in recent years has it begun to sink into my brain (which isn't saying a lot.)
but, i do talk some with my granddaughter about it. maybe she'll have a little more perspective earlier than i.

not to forget John 21:25, wherein we are told Jesus did far more than what is written:
http://biblehub.com/john/21-25.htm
24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who has written them down. And we know that his testimony is true.

25 There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written.
for me, one of the most wonderous passages. clarifying how small we are, how great He is.
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Soloist »

A church leaving non-resistance
specific haircut style... :roll:
mandating men wearing hats
a church with people that don't greet you

I'm sure there are others, but thats the few I can think of.
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Bootstrap
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Bootstrap »

Hats Off wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:I want a church that calls me to discipleship, mission, and service, not primarily to conforming to a set of rules. And I want a church that calls me to put my faith in Jesus, not primarily in the church itself.

Bonhoeffer asked a great question: Does our church appeal to the same kind of people that Jesus appealed to? Does our church offend the same kind of people that were offended by Jesus? That can sometimes tell us how much our church is acting like Jesus. If a church is mostly about something else, that's a deal breaker for me.[/quote]
Jesus talked to his own kind - the Jewish people who his earthly parents grew up with and associated with. He responded to the Pharisees "these ought you to have done and not left the other undone." In other words, he was saying "keep the commandments." Jesus did end up saying "Go into all the world" but he stayed in Israel and Judah during his ministry.
I've never been a plain Mennonite or Amish, so I don't know how what I said translates into your setting. I don't think Jesus told the Jews to stop being Jewish, but I do think that he challenged them to live out their faith quite differently. And I like a church that challenges me, calls me to go beyond what is comfortable.

I'm much more familiar with non-plain Mennonites and evangelical churches. In the churches I know, learning to focus on serving, reaching out to the unlovable, showing Christlike love even when it's not easy, finding our giftedness and calling and getting to work, focused worship, getting beyond self-righteousness and doctrinal know-it-all-ism, rejecting the American dream as a Christian norm, and rejecting politics and culture wars as a substitute for Christianity are all really important if we want to look like Jesus.

Are there similar challenges in a plain setting? What are they?
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Hats Off
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Hats Off »

One of the biggest challenges for plain Mennos is to not become the new Pharisees where form is more important than love.
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Bootstrap
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Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Bootstrap »

Hats Off wrote:One of the biggest challenges for plain Mennos is to not become the new Pharisees where form is more important than love.
I think Christlike love is a huge challenge in all churches. It's hard. It's not the normal inclination of human beings. Christlike love doesn't come without a lot of God's grace and a lot of dying to self.

Some churches settle for accepting everyone, and convince themselves that's the same thing as love. That's quite common in churches where form is not much of a focus.

Most of us are in denial about all the ways we fail to love. Maybe we all need to learn that Christlike love is something we need to work on every single day, and that we are all inclined to be in denial about that. We need the Holy Spirit and each other to grow in it.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
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