What's a deal-breaker for you?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 3881
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

joshuabgood wrote:I have a lot of personal leeway regarding actual applications being either prescribed or not. Where I get uneasy, is with, as has been messaged, a group that has a certain kind of fundamentalist absolutism with "canned" answers to every question and willing to call folks heretics that don't see things the same way.

I also get queasy if folks are politically active, either leftwing or rightwing.

I also get uneasy if their is a top down authoritarian, male-dominated, "authority" structure as opposed to a congregational approach.

I also get uneasy if most of the church is passively in the pews while the professionals "preach" and "lead worship."
Amen. If I see a "worship team" with a paid worship leader, I will run not walk to the exits.

If that is the case, the congregation is about to witness a performance, not participate in worship.

Also if people in the congregation wear football jerseys to church, I will make a beeline to the exits. There is worship of another god going on there.

J.M.
0 x
:hug:
Sudsy
Posts: 5859
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Sudsy »

I guess many of you would not stay long in our Anabaptist church. :)

A deal breaker for me would be the preaching of a gospel that no longer preached what Paul called 'the Gospel that saves us ' and what he said was of first importance. Other than that I have enjoyed being part of a variety of church fellowships - Pentecostal, Evangelical Baptist, Salvation Army, First Baptist and Mennonite Brethren.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
User avatar
steve-in-kville
Posts: 9517
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:36 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Affiliation: Hippie Anabaptist

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by steve-in-kville »

Again, lots of great replies.

My wife and I were members of a very conservative brethren group that will remain unnamed (as I still have an immense respect for them). The one minister/elder... no matter the subject title.... no matter the scripture.... his sermon would always end up preaching against the men wearing printed baseball caps and the girls wearing sport socks (whatever that is).

It was a big turn off.
0 x
I self-identify as a conspiracy theorist. My pronouns are told/you/so.

Owner/admin at https://milepost81.com/
For parents, railfans, and much more!
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23829
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Josh »

steve-in-kville wrote:Again, lots of great replies.

My wife and I were members of a very conservative brethren group that will remain unnamed (as I still have an immense respect for them). The one minister/elder... no matter the subject title.... no matter the scripture.... his sermon would always end up preaching against the men wearing printed baseball caps and the girls wearing sport socks (whatever that is).

It was a big turn off.
At a congregation I used to attend, one family left after the father decided the tolerance of caps with bills (as opposed to broad brimmed hats) was not something he could accept.

At family reunions, that family still trots out his old typewritten treatises against the evils of baseball style hats.

That wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me, though. I can handle the concept of not wearing writing on yourself.

But a definite dealbreaker is anyone who wants to obsess with women's footwear. Socks, colours of socks, shoes, shapes of shoes, flip flops...
0 x
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14451
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Bootstrap »

A few more dealbreakers.

I'm not interested in a church that is obsessed with other people's sins, always talking about "that tax collector over there" while thanking God for it's own obviously superior righteousness. I prefer a church that is always on the lookout for our own denial, sinfulness, and laziness, looking for better ways to be righteous, serve, grow in love and maturity.

I'm not interested in a church that has ongoing fights and political power mongering among members. If a church doesn't know how to care for relationships among members, it's not where I want to be.

I'm not interested in a church with agendas that are not deeply rooted in New Testament teaching, such as political agendas or social awareness agendas.

A church should look like the fruit of the Spirit:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
If the love, joy, and peace are genuine, that tells you an awful lot about a church.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
francis
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:16 pm
Location: USA
Affiliation:

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by francis »

joshuabgood wrote:I have a lot of personal leeway regarding actual applications being either prescribed or not. Where I get uneasy, is with, as has been messaged, a group that has a certain kind of fundamentalist absolutism with "canned" answers to every question and willing to call folks heretics that don't see things the same way.

I also get queasy if folks are politically active, either leftwing or rightwing.

I also get uneasy if their is a top down authoritarian, male-dominated, "authority" structure as opposed to a congregational approach.

I also get uneasy if most of the church is passively in the pews while the professionals "preach" and "lead worship."
I agree with your statement on authority--no matter how well-meaning, if all of the money/power of the church comes from one person, it makes me very uneasy, particularly if members of the congregation come to depend on them. I know that income inequality is a fact of life in this world, but knowing that one (or a few) person has more power over others, it opens the door for power dynamics that shouldn't be there.
0 x
temporal1
Posts: 16286
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote:If the love, joy, and peace are genuine, that tells you an awful lot about a church.
i realize this is meant to be a "no-brainer." but. no. it's "not necessarily so."
in my experience, this would be the creed of Universalist groups, or any feel-good group swimming in today's "worship self as god" thinking group.

this could be a deal-breaker for me. :oops: :-|

i would recognize/expect/want these things in church picnics, possibly Sunday school classes, family reunions, other open, social gatherings.

church is about humbling ourselves before God, and worshiping God.
it's about facing our own inadequacies with understanding our need for God's inspired leadership. church can be a place for tears and pain. with God's promise of His One Way out.

in the last few days, i have been thinking about sullymusic's call for the importance of worship of God in church. his emphasis was on clarifying what worship music actually is.
"What do you regret is gone from MD?" Page 1
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... ymusic#p56
by ragpicker » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:26 am

What is the specific content that you regret is gone from MD? (intent is nostalgia, not whining or finger pointing) I'll go first...

Generally speaking, it's a big ol' shrug for me.

1. Any content related to connecting with people in real life. ie: Guess Who I Met thread, etc.
2. truthseeker's and sullymusic's post[s.] I miss connecting with them in general. I bet they are having a grand time in the presence of Jesus.
even years ago, when i was new in faith, i recall how, in our Sunday school classes, no matter age or experience, the leader(s) would end those meetings with quiet words like, "now, let's go to worship God." this marked Sunday school/Bible study's end, no matter topic, now we would go together to worship God, with one central focus. denial of self.

my beloved father-in-law, whenever he led us in prayer, would always begin, as if drawing an invisable line to distinguish that now we are addressing God, "Our dear heavenly Father."
i appreciate these respectful distinctions. now, we are worshiping, or addressing God, and, that's a distinct and sacred place to be. humility is key.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14451
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:If the love, joy, and peace are genuine, that tells you an awful lot about a church.
i realize this is meant to be a "no-brainer." but. no. it's "not necessarily so."
in my experience, this would be the creed of Universalist groups, or any feel-good group swimming in today's "worship self as god" thinking group.
Obviously, if they don't have solid Christian theology, wrong place. And Christian love, joy, and peace aren't the same thing as feel-good nonsense.

But you just can't discount the most central teachings of Scripture and still claim to be following Scripture. Obviously, we need to use Scriptural criteria when we judge love, joy, and peace, but if you don't have the fruit of the Spirit, you are not walking in the Spirit.

And if your religious practice looks more like the Pharisees than Jesus, you aren't really following Jesus.

I'm not accusing anyone here of anything, but I am extremely reluctant to give up litmus tests that are based on what Jesus said and did when he confronted the dead religion of his time, tests found in most books of the New Testament in one form or other.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14451
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:church is about humbling ourselves before God, and worshiping God.
it's about facing our own inadequacies with understanding our need for God's inspired leadership. church can be a place for tears and pain. with God's promise of His One Way out.
temporal1 wrote:even years ago, when i was new in faith, i recall how, in our Sunday school classes, no matter age or experience, the leader(s) would end those meetings with quiet words like, "now, let's go to worship God." this marked Sunday school/Bible study's end, no matter topic, now we would go together to worship God, with one central focus. denial of self.

my beloved father-in-law, whenever he led us in prayer, would always begin, as if drawing an invisable line to distinguish that now we are addressing God, "Our dear heavenly Father."
i appreciate these respectful distinctions. now, we are worshiping, or addressing God, and, that's a distinct and sacred place to be. humility is key.
This is really good.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 3881
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: What's a deal-breaker for you?

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

steve-in-kville wrote:Again, lots of great replies.

My wife and I were members of a very conservative brethren group that will remain unnamed (as I still have an immense respect for them). The one minister/elder... no matter the subject title.... no matter the scripture.... his sermon would always end up preaching against the men wearing printed baseball caps and the girls wearing sport socks (whatever that is).

It was a big turn off.
There is one in every group :D

Remember, all of our churches are composed of less-than-perfect people.

J.M.
0 x
:hug:
Post Reply