Photography Sinful ?

[Josh]

We just interpret the text simply when it says “make no graven images”. Exceptions abound for “business use”, which I personally find questionable.

Ultimately, plain groups used to be strong in their convictions against the camera and the photograph - nowadays it is simply most Amish and some other OO groups, Holdemans, and a handful of ultra conservative groups. It is interesting how convictions fall by the wayside during “changing times”.

[Sudsy]

I just have not run across anyone who worships a photo. I don't know other's hearts but what appears to me sometimes is one can cross that line into worship when we put anything ahead of God in our displays of worship.

It is common in the Catholic Church. Not photos, but pictures.



Even the Pope

Yes and many old, especially Protestant churches, that have beautiful stained glass windows. Our downtown, Catholic, United, Presbyterian, Anglican and First Baptist church all have stained glass window paintings and I have always enjoyed these in my visits. As long as we are worshipping the God in the stories these depict and not the pictures themselves, I don't believe we have crossed the line into idolatry. To me, this is like having a cross to wear or one shown somewhere in a church. It is not the cross we worship but the One who died on a cross to save us from our sins.

I have always had some reservations when singing the words to that hymn 'The Old Rugged Cross'. I am not cherishing and clinging to a cross for my salvation but rather putting my faith and hope in what was accomplished on the cross where Jesus died for my sin. Frank Huston wrote a song called “The Christ of the Cross,” that appeared in the 1938 Methodist hymnal and his 3rd verse seems he needed to point out it isn't about a cross but rather the Christ who redeems us. His words were -

Let others who will praise the cross of the Christ,
The Christ of the cross is my theme;
For though we must cherish the old rugged cross,
'Tis only the Christ can redeem.

[Ken]

Yes and many old, especially Protestant churches, that have beautiful stained glass windows. Our downtown, Catholic, United, Presbyterian, Anglican and First Baptist church all have stained glass window paintings and I have always enjoyed these in my visits. As long as we are worshipping the God in the stories these depict and not the pictures themselves, I don't believe we have crossed the line into idolatry. To me, this is like having a cross to wear or one shown somewhere in a church. It is not the cross we worship but the One who died on a cross to save us from our sins.

I think a lot of historic church art, especially stuff like Medieval cathedrals, was from an era in which the majority of the populace was illiterate and did not have Bibles to read or study. So pictures as reflected in stained glass and other forms of art were one of the only ways to narrate Biblical messages to an illiterate populace.

[ohio jones]

We just interpret the text simply when it says “make no graven images”. Exceptions abound for “business use”, which I personally find questionable.

I am more concerned about the graven images of Washington, Jackson, Franklin, et al, which many people worship for both business and personal use.

[Josh]

We just interpret the text simply when it says “make no graven images”. Exceptions abound for “business use”, which I personally find questionable.

I am more concerned about the graven images of Washington, Jackson, Franklin, et al, which many people worship for both business and personal use.

It's always been interesting to me that there never was a group that really raised a fuss about this. (Or the Emperor's effigy on coinage.)

[Sudsy]

We just interpret the text simply when it says “make no graven images”. Exceptions abound for “business use”, which I personally find questionable.

Ultimately, plain groups used to be strong in their convictions against the camera and the photograph - nowadays it is simply most Amish and some other OO groups, Holdemans, and a handful of ultra conservative groups. It is interesting how convictions fall by the wayside during “changing times”.

My understanding of a “graven image” is a representation of a god which is worshipped. Another term is “idol”, often stated as “false idol”. I can agree if a photo or statue or picture is itself worshipped. I do believe statues especially can be 'graven images' but I have seldom heard of someone worshipping a photo or a picture or painting.

I believe there are many 'convictions' throughout church history that were not Holy Spirit directed convictions and many were imposed on other believers. Jesus upset many of the religious people in His days on earth when He did not live according to all of their 'convictions'. When 'convictions' are not the same among Christians, I think it good to go to the scriptural sources used to support those 'convictions' and check out with the Holy Spirit as our guide to see if this is a Holy Spirit 'conviction' or not to us and if we sense in our spirit it is, then live by it. I believe our judgment as believers will be based on how well we personally have obeyed what the Holy Spirit has 'convicted' us on how to live regardless of what others do.

[Josh]

My understanding of a “graven image” is a representation of a god which is worshipped.

That's nice that that's your understanding. A lot of plain Anabaptists prefer to stick to simple readings of the text.

I believe there are many 'convictions' throughout church history that were not Holy Spirit directed convictions and many were imposed on other believers.

Could you explain how a simple reading of the Bible and obedience to it is not "Holy Spirit directed"?

Jesus upset many of the religious people in His days on earth when He did not live according to all of their 'convictions'. When 'convictions' are not the same among Christians, I think it good to go to the scriptural sources used to support those 'convictions' and check out with the Holy Spirit as our guide to see if this is a Holy Spirit 'conviction' or not to us and if we sense in our spirit it is, then live by it. I believe our judgment as believers will be based on how well we personally have believed the Holy Spirit has 'convicted' us on how to live regardless of what others do.

Where did Jesus criticise people for obeying the Bible?

It is a very strange religion to think that Jesus came to teach people to stop obeying the Ten Commandments.

[RZehr]

We just interpret the text simply when it says “make no graven images”. Exceptions abound for “business use”, which I personally find questionable.

I am more concerned about the graven images of Washington, Jackson, Franklin, et al, which many people worship for both business and personal use.

It's always been interesting to me that there never was a group that really raised a fuss about this. (Or the Emperor's effigy on coinage.)

Might be because Jesus didn’t seem to have a problem with using money an image on it.

[Sudsy]

My understanding of a “graven image” is a representation of a god which is worshipped.

That's nice that that's your understanding. A lot of plain Anabaptists prefer to stick to simple readings of the text.

The danger of simple readings is we can be simply wrong.

I believe there are many 'convictions' throughout church history that were not Holy Spirit directed convictions and many were imposed on other believers.

Could you explain how a simple reading of the Bible and obedience to it is not "Holy Spirit directed"?

A simple reading of any text does not mean it is the correct understanding meant by the writer. I could take any number of scriptural verses in the Bible, such as those used for the doctrine of eternal security, and a simple reading leads one to believe OSAS is truth to believe. Others will take other texts and simply believe those prove OSAS not correct. Just because a believer has the Holy Spirit living within does not mean that person is always being guided by the Holy Spirit. I do believe there is a truth about everything but also believe no one knows that one truth about everything as we see through a glass darkly, all of us.

Jesus upset many of the religious people in His days on earth when He did not live according to all of their 'convictions'. When 'convictions' are not the same among Christians, I think it good to go to the scriptural sources used to support those 'convictions' and check out with the Holy Spirit as our guide to see if this is a Holy Spirit 'conviction' or not to us and if we sense in our spirit it is, then live by it. I believe our judgment as believers will be based on how well we personally have believed the Holy Spirit has 'convicted' us on how to live regardless of what others do.

Where did Jesus criticise people for obeying the Bible?

Jesus criticized the Pharisees often in their ways of 'obeying the Bible'. He often said - "You have heard it said." He will use this phrase repeatedly to describe what was common knowledge about the Old Testament commands. He corrected the abuse of scripture and the theological heresy such abuse causes.

It is a very strange religion to think that Jesus came to teach people to stop obeying the Ten Commandments.

Yes, that would be.

[ken_sylvania]

Where did Jesus criticise people for obeying the Bible?

Jesus criticized the Pharisees often in their ways of 'obeying the Bible'. He often said - "You have heard it said." He will use this phrase repeatedly to describe what was common knowledge about the Old Testament commands. He corrected the abuse of scripture and the theological heresy such abuse causes.

It is a very strange religion to think that Jesus came to teach people to stop obeying the Ten Commandments.

Yes, that would be.

Actually Jesus was criticizing the Pharisees for their way of disobeying the "Bible." And in every case where He said "You have heard... but I say unto you" he raised the standard, not lowered it.