Political office

[Ken]

So I assume you could not work as a postal carrier. And presumably not as a UPS or FedEx carrier? Do you distinguish government from private entities here? I assume you would not sign up for the job and illegally destroy people's mail.

What laws are more important? God's laws, or men's laws?

What about software or hardware that can be used for good or for ill? Would you be unable to work for a cellphone manufacturer?

Perhaps I could work for one, designing and delivering filtering software so people could use a smartphone without being subjected to so much filth.

Would you be unable to help program the Android operating system - or any other operating system? Is it wrong for Christians to work on Internet software or word processing software that can be used for good or for ill?

That is completely different from delivering pornography to people's homes.

The simple fact is that delivering pornography to people's homes is wrong, and I would have a difficult time justifying why I did it on judgment day.

So by the same token I assume you also believe that a Christian cannot work for a cable TV or internet company and couldn't do things like install cable TV or internet service since people are going to use that in ways that you disapprove of?

Also one couldn't work as a cab or uber driver because you might accidentally be taking people to or from bars and strip clubs or to a bookstore where they might be buying porn.

[Josh]

So by the same token I assume you also believe that a Christian cannot work for a cable TV or internet company

I certainly wouldn't install television to people's houses. TV is full of bad things and has been a very bad influence on society and has little to no potential for good.

Internet at least has some potential for good, but if I provided such service, I would want to be sure I was offering an adequate filtered option.

and couldn't do things like install cable TV or internet service since people are going to use that in ways that you disapprove of?

Also one couldn't work as a cab or uber driver because you might accidentally be taking people to or from bars and strip clubs or to a bookstore where they might be buying porn.

That is ridiculous and is quite different. However, if I found that someone wanted me to take them to such a place, I would probably decline to drive them there. I don't support men going to things like brothels, strip clubs, and so on and would not want to play any part in the exploitation of women and sexual violence against women, many of whom are trafficked. Would you?

[Ken]

That is ridiculous and is quite different. However, if I found that someone wanted me to take them to such a place, I would probably decline to drive them there. I don't support men going to things like brothels, strip clubs, and so on and would not want to play any part in the exploitation of women and sexual violence against women, many of whom are trafficked. Would you?

The simple reality is that if you are going to do ANY job in which you interact with and provide any service to the public then you are going to encounter people with whom you disagree with and of whom you may disapprove. That comes with any job that involves interaction with the public. We control what we do, we can't control everyone else.

If you don't want to be involved with the public, then don't take any job in which interacting with the public is part of the job. Simple as that.

[Ernie]

I think there are conservative Anabaptists who work for the public school system? How do they reconcile this with a mostly Sattler perspective? I assume they do not lead anyone in saying the Pledge of Allegiance. My refusal to do so really upset my supervising teacher back in the day ...

I'm mostly Marpeck. To me, the issue is not working for government per se, but some of the things the government might want me to do. I would not feel comfortable doing what a Justice of the Peace is required to do, for instance. I would be fine with delivering mail. I would not swear any oath or promise to defend against enemies, but I would be happy to affirm some things. I would be happy to help rebuild the bridge in Baltimore, even though some immoral things might be transported over it.

I knew a Mennonite from the Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonite Church (a place you might find conscience against things that you wouldn't find anywhere else) who served as a custodian at a courthouse for many years.

I'm not really sure how far apart Sattler and Marpeck really were... All the Anabaptists I know take the stated position of Marpeck.
And if Sattler and Marpeck were on a panel, I'm not sure if they wouldn't consider themselves on the same page, but just framing the issues a bit different.

[Josh]

That is ridiculous and is quite different. However, if I found that someone wanted me to take them to such a place, I would probably decline to drive them there. I don't support men going to things like brothels, strip clubs, and so on and would not want to play any part in the exploitation of women and sexual violence against women, many of whom are trafficked. Would you?

The simple reality is that if you are going to do ANY job in which you interact with and provide any service to the public then you are going to encounter people with whom you disagree with and of whom you may disapprove. That comes with any job that involves interaction with the public. We control what we do, we can't control everyone else.

If you don't want to be involved with the public, then don't take any job in which interacting with the public is part of the job. Simple as that.

I interact with the public regularly, but so far I haven't had to drive people to brothels nor deliver pornography to their houses.

[Bootstrap]

I'm not really sure how far apart Sattler and Marpeck really were... All the Anabaptists I know take the stated position of Marpeck.
And if Sattler and Marpeck were on a panel, I'm not sure if they wouldn't consider themselves on the same page, but just framing the issues a bit different.

Oh how I wish we could have that panel discussion ...

[ken_sylvania]

That is ridiculous and is quite different. However, if I found that someone wanted me to take them to such a place, I would probably decline to drive them there. I don't support men going to things like brothels, strip clubs, and so on and would not want to play any part in the exploitation of women and sexual violence against women, many of whom are trafficked. Would you?

The simple reality is that if you are going to do ANY job in which you interact with and provide any service to the public then you are going to encounter people with whom you disagree with and of whom you may disapprove. That comes with any job that involves interaction with the public. We control what we do, we can't control everyone else.

If you don't want to be involved with the public, then don't take any job in which interacting with the public is part of the job. Simple as that.

All very true - also quite irrelevant to the questions being discussed. Nobody in this thread has been suggesting that there is any issue with interacting with people with whom we disagree.
Also, water is wet.

[ohio jones]

I think GPT softened Sattler on this.

And Hubmaier's statements were apparently selectively sourced as well.

[ohio jones]

But we should. The right thing to do would be to not deliver pornography to people's mailboxes.

I am very disturbed by this point of view that it's OK to do immoral things as long as an employer is telling you to do it.

So I assume you could not work as a postal carrier. And presumably not as a UPS or FedEx carrier? Do you distinguish government from private entities here? I assume you would not sign up for the job and illegally destroy people's mail.

What about software or hardware that can be used for good or for ill? Would you be unable to work for a cellphone manufacturer? Would you be unable to help program the Android operating system - or any other operating system? Is it wrong for Christians to work on Internet software or word processing software that can be used for good or for ill?

I would be comfortable with UPS or FedEx simply because I have no way of knowing what is being delivered. Their stuff is packaged. With knowledge comes responsibility.

I wish my postal carrier would develop a conscience against delivering bills to my mailbox.

Same way I would not be justified in selling ammunition if I knew it was going to be used to kill people. But if I had a sports store, I would be okay with selling ammunition.

But with duel use, I do not find it incumbent upon me to verify the end use of everything that passes through my hands.

I would not sell ammunition if it was intended for duel use.

[Ken]

That is ridiculous and is quite different. However, if I found that someone wanted me to take them to such a place, I would probably decline to drive them there. I don't support men going to things like brothels, strip clubs, and so on and would not want to play any part in the exploitation of women and sexual violence against women, many of whom are trafficked. Would you?

The simple reality is that if you are going to do ANY job in which you interact with and provide any service to the public then you are going to encounter people with whom you disagree with and of whom you may disapprove. That comes with any job that involves interaction with the public. We control what we do, we can't control everyone else.

If you don't want to be involved with the public, then don't take any job in which interacting with the public is part of the job. Simple as that.

I interact with the public regularly, but so far I haven't had to drive people to brothels nor deliver pornography to their houses.

I'm not sure why you are obsessed with porn in the mail since practically no one consumes porn that way anymore.

But fine, let's use your porn example. Say you have dinner and tip your waiter $5 and he uses your $5 bill to go by porn on the way home. You just enabled his porn use every bit as much as if you were a mail carrier who happened to unknowingly deliver some porn to a customer in a brown paper envelope. Or say you hire a plumber for $100 to fix a leak and he uses the $100 you paid him for a night out on the town at a strip club. You enabled his behavior every bit as much as the taxi driver who happened to pick him up. Maybe more so.

If you interact with people in the economy your money will potentially be enabling whatever vices (and virtues) they might have. There is no possible way to avoid that other than to completely shun society and become a hermit.

Or maybe people are responsible for their own choices.