Churches, Dealerships, and Franchises

[Josh]

Anyone who is a part of, or preferably a member of a conservative anabaptist church has indescribable social capital. I have seen it when things go wrong, as well as when things go right.

My attitude is that the social capital is obvious and I'm not going to spend time convincing people who already think their own culture / attitudes are better than plain peoples'. I would prefer to spend time with people who think plain culture is valuable and are willing to adapt to it.

[Ernie]

Flawed as the conservative Mennonite community may be, the finances, emotions, and time invested in trying to help newcomers and their families assimilate into the community stands as a testament to a desire that the new community members will share in the cultural capital of the community. I'm not saying these attempts are always successful, but there certainly are sincere attempts being made.

My hat is off to all those who are attempting to do this in a humble way. But it so rare that people get integrated, that I have decided to give at least a portion of the remainder of my life to helping those who probably won't ever make it, and simply help them tweak their culture in a way that is doable for them.
My guess that for every person we are able to integrate, there are 999 who we could help get into a relationship with God and help them change some aspects of their culture that are not godly, to a point where they can offer something better to their children than what they could if they never interacted with us.

I want it to be understood that I am not critical of what you are doing.

I do disagree with what feels to me like a false dichotomy in your argument - I don't think that it's an either-or scenario where the traditional assimilation goal prevents us from helping those other 999 to change and improve areas where their culture is deficient. Many of the plain Mennonites I know do quite a bit of reaching out and ministering to neighbors and others.

I am skeptical about the accuracy of your 999:1 ratio of persons to be helped - the 999 would need to be in addition to the current interactions as well as not result in losing the existing structure and "culture."

I probably didn't make it clear that I think Anabaptists can help people improve aspects of culture that is deficient. Many Plain Mennonites and other conservative Anabaptists are doing this and that is why I am still a conservative Anabaptist. If all Plain Anabaptists were totally isolated and did not help improve the lives of others, I might not want to be the only one who did differently. But that is not the case.

The part of Christian culture that I don't think we do so well at is providing spiritual fellowship for people, and helping people be part of faithful New Testament churches, that are not necessarily Anabaptist, for those who can't do the Anabaptist thing for some reason or another.
If folks can't fit into our churches, most of us have very little to offer them.
Many seekers end up with little Christian fellowship or no church to be part of, unless they join or return to their Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox roots.

[Sudsy]

My hat is off to all those who are attempting to do this in a humble way. But it so rare that people get integrated, that I have decided to give at least a portion of the remainder of my life to helping those who probably won't ever make it, and simply help them tweak their culture in a way that is doable for them.
My guess that for every person we are able to integrate, there are 999 who we could help get into a relationship with God and help them change some aspects of their culture that are not godly, to a point where they can offer something better to their children than what they could if they never interacted with us.

I want it to be understood that I am not critical of what you are doing.

I do disagree with what feels to me like a false dichotomy in your argument - I don't think that it's an either-or scenario where the traditional assimilation goal prevents us from helping those other 999 to change and improve areas where their culture is deficient. Many of the plain Mennonites I know do quite a bit of reaching out and ministering to neighbors and others.

I am skeptical about the accuracy of your 999:1 ratio of persons to be helped - the 999 would need to be in addition to the current interactions as well as not result in losing the existing structure and "culture."

I probably didn't make it clear that I think Anabaptists can help people improve aspects of culture that is deficient. Many Plain Mennonites and other conservative Anabaptists are doing this and that is why I am still a conservative Anabaptist. If all Plain Anabaptists were totally isolated and did not help improve the lives of others, I might not want to be the only one who did differently. But that is not the case.

The part of Christian culture that I don't think we do so well at is providing spiritual fellowship for people, and helping people be part of faithful New Testament churches, that are not necessarily Anabaptist, for those who can't do the Anabaptist thing for some reason or another.
If folks can't fit into our churches, most of us have very little to offer them.
Many seekers end up with little Christian fellowship or no church to be part of, unless they join or return to their Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox roots.

And many other seekers are just moving to another type of Anabaptist fellowship. Our local MB church is quite accommodating to people who desire to follow Jesus regardless if they care to become official members or believe exactly as the Statement of Faith reads. They call them 'adherents' but still recognized them as members of the one true Church of born again believers. This results in, my guess, about half of the attenders at the local MB church that do not come from Mennonite backgrounds. Their last 3 pastors had no Mennonite background whatsoever. One from a Christian and Misssionary Alliance background and the last two from Pentecostal backgrounds. Being Anabaptist was not an important label whereas being born again is.

[Judas Maccabeus]

My hat is off to all those who are attempting to do this in a humble way. But it so rare that people get integrated, that I have decided to give at least a portion of the remainder of my life to helping those who probably won't ever make it, and simply help them tweak their culture in a way that is doable for them.
My guess that for every person we are able to integrate, there are 999 who we could help get into a relationship with God and help them change some aspects of their culture that are not godly, to a point where they can offer something better to their children than what they could if they never interacted with us.

I want it to be understood that I am not critical of what you are doing.

I do disagree with what feels to me like a false dichotomy in your argument - I don't think that it's an either-or scenario where the traditional assimilation goal prevents us from helping those other 999 to change and improve areas where their culture is deficient. Many of the plain Mennonites I know do quite a bit of reaching out and ministering to neighbors and others.

I am skeptical about the accuracy of your 999:1 ratio of persons to be helped - the 999 would need to be in addition to the current interactions as well as not result in losing the existing structure and "culture."

I probably didn't make it clear that I think Anabaptists can help people improve aspects of culture that is deficient. Many Plain Mennonites and other conservative Anabaptists are doing this and that is why I am still a conservative Anabaptist. If all Plain Anabaptists were totally isolated and did not help improve the lives of others, I might not want to be the only one who did differently. But that is not the case.

The part of Christian culture that I don't think we do so well at is providing spiritual fellowship for people, and helping people be part of faithful New Testament churches, that are not necessarily Anabaptist, for those who can't do the Anabaptist thing for some reason or another.
If folks can't fit into our churches, most of us have very little to offer them.
Many seekers end up with little Christian fellowship or no church to be part of, unless they join or return to their Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox roots.

Barring something like a history of divorce, why can't one adapt? It is largely a matter of the will. Main issues I have seen are TV, clothes, what you do in your social life, and (Gasp) wedding rings.

[Soloist]

Barring something like a history of divorce, why can't one adapt? It is largely a matter of the will. Main issues I have seen are TV, clothes, what you do in your social life, and (Gasp) wedding rings.

I see the bigger issue is jealousy… Mennonites have a great social/community but it’s basically built around family lines. They have no experience integrating anyone into their own family and have plenty of church fellowship throughout the week built into work and numerous family activities. Extra meeting that week? Cancel prayer meeting!
I really really wonder how JW’s manage to keep meeting daily

[Josh]

Barring something like a history of divorce, why can't one adapt? It is largely a matter of the will. Main issues I have seen are TV, clothes, what you do in your social life, and (Gasp) wedding rings.

I see the bigger issue is jealousy… Mennonites have a great social/community but it’s basically built around family lines. They have no experience integrating anyone into their own family and have plenty of church fellowship throughout the week built into work and numerous family activities. Extra meeting that week? Cancel prayer meeting!
I really really wonder how JW’s manage to keep meeting daily

It really is quite silly how plain Anabaptists wring their hands about how they should stop being so plain to “help seekers”,whilst simultaneously being blind to how they really don’t even want to integrate seekers into their family based lives.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Barring something like a history of divorce, why can't one adapt? It is largely a matter of the will. Main issues I have seen are TV, clothes, what you do in your social life, and (Gasp) wedding rings.

I see the bigger issue is jealousy… Mennonites have a great social/community but it’s basically built around family lines. They have no experience integrating anyone into their own family and have plenty of church fellowship throughout the week built into work and numerous family activities. Extra meeting that week? Cancel prayer meeting!
I really really wonder how JW’s manage to keep meeting daily

Just teach in the school, even part time, and you will have plenty of fellowship. Our church is a fairly new one, so not everyone is related to anyone. I suspect that helps, my wife are not the only NMBs in our church.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Barring something like a history of divorce, why can't one adapt? It is largely a matter of the will. Main issues I have seen are TV, clothes, what you do in your social life, and (Gasp) wedding rings.

I see the bigger issue is jealousy… Mennonites have a great social/community but it’s basically built around family lines. They have no experience integrating anyone into their own family and have plenty of church fellowship throughout the week built into work and numerous family activities. Extra meeting that week? Cancel prayer meeting!
I really really wonder how JW’s manage to keep meeting daily

It really is quite silly how plain Anabaptists wring their hands about how they should stop being so plain to “help seekers”,whilst simultaneously being blind to how they really don’t even want to integrate seekers into their family based lives.

There are some congregations that seem good at this. There are many that are not, I am finding out more and more. I would say that it is not a matter of changing rules, but a matter of changing some social patterns.

[NedFlanders]

Barring something like a history of divorce, why can't one adapt? It is largely a matter of the will. Main issues I have seen are TV, clothes, what you do in your social life, and (Gasp) wedding rings.

I see the bigger issue is jealousy… Mennonites have a great social/community but it’s basically built around family lines. They have no experience integrating anyone into their own family and have plenty of church fellowship throughout the week built into work and numerous family activities. Extra meeting that week? Cancel prayer meeting!
I really really wonder how JW’s manage to keep meeting daily

Easy now, that isn't true. You're really going to say that they have "no experience integrating anyone into their own family"???? I am sure with that attitude you're not going to succeed in gaining any closer fellowship and Mennonites are good at not giving into self pity. Try a little more self denial, not looking at self, not expecting anything - but serving. If you don't fit in - oh well - still do the will of God and you will find joy - I assure you it is part of the answer of integrating and having closer fellowship.

[steve-in-kville]

Barring something like a history of divorce, why can't one adapt? It is largely a matter of the will. Main issues I have seen are TV, clothes, what you do in your social life, and (Gasp) wedding rings.

I see the bigger issue is jealousy… Mennonites have a great social/community but it’s basically built around family lines. They have no experience integrating anyone into their own family and have plenty of church fellowship throughout the week built into work and numerous family activities. Extra meeting that week? Cancel prayer meeting!
I really really wonder how JW’s manage to keep meeting daily

Easy now, that isn't true. You're really going to say that they have "no experience integrating anyone into their own family"???? I am sure with that attitude you're not going to succeed in gaining any closer fellowship and Mennonites are good at not giving into self pity. Try a little more self denial, not looking at self, not expecting anything - but serving. If you don't fit in - oh well - still do the will of God and you will find joy - I assure you it is part of the answer of integrating and having closer fellowship.

Soloist has a point. I've seen plain folks be jealous over some crazy things, up to and including other people's struggles and challenges. Weird, I know.