AP Video: How to Read Revelation & Avoid the Mark of the Beast

[Soloist]

Historically Anabaptism predates the literalism of pre-millenialism, so it is fair to say there is a historical Anabaptist eschatology even if it no longer captures the current scope of belief.

wife: it is so strange when moving to find that you are going from one eschatology (or lack thereof) to another, depending on the church group.

I can see that might seem strange, but once you understand their never was a single origin group it makes more sense. Not all variance is the result of factionalism, sometimes groups are diverse simply because of diverse history.

Wife: yeah, I just wasn’t aware that mennonites even thought that much about end times prophecy, and the first time I heard a left behind style sermon, my jaw basically dropped. I definitely agree with Josh, and even the hard-core pre-millennial, pre-TRIB people I know here are not actually that dogmatic about it, and if even ministers can have different viewpoints, it doesn’t seem to be a test of fellowship.

[barnhart]

Wife: yeah, I just wasn’t aware that mennonites even thought that much about end times prophecy, and the first time I heard a left behind style sermon, my jaw basically dropped. I definitely agree with Josh, and even the hard-core pre-millennial, pre-TRIB people I know here are not actually that dogmatic about it, and if even ministers can have different viewpoints, it doesn’t seem to be a test of fellowship.

I think that is generally the case. I once told someone the premillennialists I like the most are Mennonites because for them it is only a theory of end time events, not a general system of relating to political powers.

[Bootstrap]

So to sum up: Revelation is basically an expansion of certain parts of Daniel, with references to other OT passages as well, which tells us more about those parts of Daniel that haven't been fulfilled yet, to give us warnings and encouragement, and to point to the ultimate victory of Christ.

For comparison, think of all the prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament and all the prophecies Jesus made about his death and resurrection.

When Jesus rose from the dead, not a single one of his followers recognized what had happened until God revealed it to them. The three women came to the grave, showing great love and courage, but expecting to anoint a dead body. When Peter came to the grave, he was left wondering "what had happened". When Jesus appeared to the men on the road to Emmaus, they have no idea who he is, and start explaining what had happened to Jesus to him - to Jesus himself.

When Jesus revealed himself to his followers, he pointed back to what he had said about his death and resurrection and to Old Testament prophecies. The prophecies served a purpose, preparing his people, but they did not tell them exactly what was going to happen, and only Jesus could explain how the prophecies had come to pass to them.

I suspect the role of prophecies about the Second Coming will be similar. When they come true, Jesus will have to explain it all to us again, pointing back to these prophecies.

[Bootstrap]

Wife: yeah, I just wasn’t aware that mennonites even thought that much about end times prophecy, and the first time I heard a left behind style sermon, my jaw basically dropped. I definitely agree with Josh, and even the hard-core pre-millennial, pre-TRIB people I know here are not actually that dogmatic about it, and if even ministers can have different viewpoints, it doesn’t seem to be a test of fellowship.

I think that is generally the case. I once told someone the premillennialists I like the most are Mennonites because for them it is only a theory of end time events, not a general system of relating to political powers.

Again, I think it's helpful to compare to prophecies of the first coming of Jesus.

The disciples had to go through great suffering. They were completely clueless, they did not have all the answers. But they knew Jesus and they recognized him when he rose from the dead and explained it to them. Love and allegiance are crucial.

We will also go through suffering. We will also be clueless. We do not have the answers, we do not fully grasp prophecy. But we know Jesus and we will recognize him. We love him and want to be faithful to him. And we can know that God will bring it to victory.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

[Josh]

Of course, the historic Anabaptist position is the amillennial view, other than a few embarrassing exceptions like the Münsterites.

Any group that adopts premillennialism (or worse, dispensationalism) is a sign that the group at one point was drinking from strange waters. I haven’t really encountered any groups with postmillennial views.

[Martin]

Of course, the historic Anabaptist position is the amillennial view, other than a few embarrassing exceptions like the Münsterites.

Any group that adopts premillennialism (or worse, dispensationalism) is a sign that the group at one point was drinking from strange waters. I haven’t really encountered any groups with postmillennial views.

I consider the Bruderhof post-millenial.

[Josh]

Of course, the historic Anabaptist position is the amillennial view, other than a few embarrassing exceptions like the Münsterites.

Any group that adopts premillennialism (or worse, dispensationalism) is a sign that the group at one point was drinking from strange waters. I haven’t really encountered any groups with postmillennial views.

I consider the Bruderhof post-millenial.

Interesting - I hadn’t thought of that.

[Bootstrap]

Summary of Anabaptist and Mennonite end-times theology from ChatGPT:

Anabaptist and Mennonite Theological Perspectives:

Eschatology:

• Anabaptists and Mennonites typically emphasize an eschatology that focuses on the reign of Christ in the present and a future hope rooted in the resurrection and the renewal of the earth. Their eschatological views are more amillennial or postmillennial rather than premillennial. These perspectives do not support a pre-tribulation rapture, as they generally do not adhere to a literal interpretation of the book of Revelation in the way that dispensational premillennialism does.

Kingdom of God:

• Both groups heavily emphasize the present reality of the Kingdom of God, believing that Jesus’ teachings and life model how Christians should live today. They stress following Jesus' example in daily life, peacemaking, and social justice, which contrasts with a theology that focuses on escape from the world through a rapture.

Historical Context:

• The historical context of Anabaptism, with its origins in the Radical Reformation, focused on separation from worldly systems and a deep commitment to living out New Testament teachings. The concept of a pre-tribulation rapture does not feature prominently in their teachings, as it was developed significantly later and became popularized by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.

Contemporary Teaching:

• In contemporary settings, Mennonite and broader Anabaptist groups continue to focus on discipleship and community life over eschatological speculation. Their teachings and writings typically do not emphasize end-times scenarios like the rapture but rather how to live faithfully in the present age.

Conclusion:

• Anabaptist and Mennonite teachings generally do not support the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine. They are more likely to emphasize a theology that focuses on living out the teachings of Jesus now, viewing the Christian hope as centered on the resurrection and the transformation of the earth at Christ's return rather than an escape from tribulation via the rapture.

Definitions of these terms:

Definitions of Eschatological Terms:

Amillennial:

• Amillennialism is a view in Christian eschatology which holds that the 1000 years mentioned in the Book of Revelation is a symbolic period representing the era of the Church; it started with Christ's resurrection and will last until His second coming. Amillennialists believe that Christ currently reigns at the right hand of God, thus, there is no future millennium earthly reign prior to His return. This viewpoint interprets the "millennium" as a spiritual term, describing the reign of souls in heaven.

Postmillennial:

• Postmillennialism is an interpretation of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after (post-) a thousand-year period of Christian influence or dominance. The term "millennium" is considered not strictly literal but as an extended period of time during which Christ will reign over the earth, not through an actual physical presence, but through the increased prevalence of the church and its influence on society. Postmillennialists believe that the world will gradually improve through Christian teaching and preaching.

Premillennial:

• Premillennialism is the belief that Jesus will physically return to the earth (the second coming) before (pre-) the millennium, a literal thousand-year golden age of peace. This perspective holds that the second coming will precede a time of worldwide peace and righteousness known as the Millennium, during which Christ will reign on earth with His saints. This view is typically associated with a more literal interpretation of eschatology.

Summary:

• Each of these views represents a different interpretation of the end times as described in the Christian Bible, particularly the Book of Revelation. They reflect varying perspectives on the nature and timing of Christ's reign in relation to the millennium mentioned in Revelation 20.

[Soloist]

Summary of Anabaptist and Mennonite end-times theology from ChatGPT:

Anabaptist and Mennonite Theological Perspectives:

Eschatology:

• Anabaptists and Mennonites typically emphasize an eschatology that focuses on the reign of Christ in the present and a future hope rooted in the resurrection and the renewal of the earth. Their eschatological views are more amillennial or postmillennial rather than premillennial. These perspectives do not support a pre-tribulation rapture, as they generally do not adhere to a literal interpretation of the book of Revelation in the way that dispensational premillennialism does.

Kingdom of God:

• Both groups heavily emphasize the present reality of the Kingdom of God, believing that Jesus’ teachings and life model how Christians should live today. They stress following Jesus' example in daily life, peacemaking, and social justice, which contrasts with a theology that focuses on escape from the world through a rapture.

Historical Context:

• The historical context of Anabaptism, with its origins in the Radical Reformation, focused on separation from worldly systems and a deep commitment to living out New Testament teachings. The concept of a pre-tribulation rapture does not feature prominently in their teachings, as it was developed significantly later and became popularized by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.

Contemporary Teaching:

• In contemporary settings, Mennonite and broader Anabaptist groups continue to focus on discipleship and community life over eschatological speculation. Their teachings and writings typically do not emphasize end-times scenarios like the rapture but rather how to live faithfully in the present age.

Conclusion:

• Anabaptist and Mennonite teachings generally do not support the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine. They are more likely to emphasize a theology that focuses on living out the teachings of Jesus now, viewing the Christian hope as centered on the resurrection and the transformation of the earth at Christ's return rather than an escape from tribulation via the rapture.

Definitions of these terms:

Definitions of Eschatological Terms:

Amillennial:

• Amillennialism is a view in Christian eschatology which holds that the 1000 years mentioned in the Book of Revelation is a symbolic period representing the era of the Church; it started with Christ's resurrection and will last until His second coming. Amillennialists believe that Christ currently reigns at the right hand of God, thus, there is no future millennium earthly reign prior to His return. This viewpoint interprets the "millennium" as a spiritual term, describing the reign of souls in heaven.

Postmillennial:

• Postmillennialism is an interpretation of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after (post-) a thousand-year period of Christian influence or dominance. The term "millennium" is considered not strictly literal but as an extended period of time during which Christ will reign over the earth, not through an actual physical presence, but through the increased prevalence of the church and its influence on society. Postmillennialists believe that the world will gradually improve through Christian teaching and preaching.

Premillennial:

• Premillennialism is the belief that Jesus will physically return to the earth (the second coming) before (pre-) the millennium, a literal thousand-year golden age of peace. This perspective holds that the second coming will precede a time of worldwide peace and righteousness known as the Millennium, during which Christ will reign on earth with His saints. This view is typically associated with a more literal interpretation of eschatology.

Summary:

• Each of these views represents a different interpretation of the end times as described in the Christian Bible, particularly the Book of Revelation. They reflect varying perspectives on the nature and timing of Christ's reign in relation to the millennium mentioned in Revelation 20.

Wife: ChatGPT hasn’t sat through any sermons from Pilgrim or eastern, apparently.

[Bootstrap]

Wife: ChatGPT hasn’t sat through any sermons from Pilgrim or eastern, apparently.

And neither have I ;->