Sudsy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 12:32 pm
I find the recent case involving Alistair Begg being a prime example as to how far one believes a Christian should go to reaching the lost. The majority of preachers are calling Alistair out on his advice to a lady and it reminds me of how Jesus was called out too on His ways of being around sinners. I really wonder just how Jesus would handle that situation. But then again, if I really believe that the Holy Spirit is living within me and will guide me in the way I need to go, then I really don't need to figure these things out in my own reasonings, do I ?
How are Christians to walk the fine line between affirming and reviling those whose actions declare them to be God’s enemies? That is the question Alistair Begg seeks to answer as he addresses the controversy surrounding the counsel he gave to a grandmother in the summer of 2023. Turning to Luke 15, Alistair reminds us that the inclination toward pharisaism is alive and well within all our hearts. It is something we always must guard against—especially as we press on toward purity and holiness in the midst of an aimless and confused generation.
Request: Please listen to the sermon before responding in this thread. After listening to the sermon, do you think he got it right?
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
I think there is much truth regarding Phariseeism in the church today especially in groups that have written expectations additional to the scripture itself. And the seeming lack of compassion towards the lost that shows up and results in churches with no real growth.
I don't think Alistair's advice to this person is something that should be regarded as applicable to all similar circumstances and believe those who give instructions to others in pastoral roles will account for their guidance. Alistair states that this was not trying to establish one way of approaching this or similar situations. It was advice with a certain concern he had for that person's salvation.
To some extent this reminds me of the apostle Paul who said although he was not under the law he became like a Jew who was under the law to win them to Christ. Paul was all about winning souls to faith in Christ. There may have been those who were puzzled by what he was up to by hanging out with the Jews in their synagogue, but if there were, Paul didn't let that stop him. He 'fit in' with the Jews where he could much like Jesus did when He hung out with sinners, imo.
Whether Alistair 'got it right' or not is something I chose not to judge. I think it is something to consider regarding how 'out there' we are willing to go to see sinners come to repentance. Am I more focused on what I regard as my reputation in being a Christian than I am reaching others with the Gospel ? Or is my reputation more like that of the Pharisees and my actions show little concern for the lost ?
Sudsy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:14 pm
I think there is much truth regarding Phariseeism in the church today especially in groups that have written expectations additional to the scripture itself. And the seeming lack of compassion towards the lost that shows up and results in churches with no real growth.
I'm so glad that you are not as other men are - cold, proud, and lacking compassion...
Sudsy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:14 pm
I think there is much truth regarding Phariseeism in the church today especially in groups that have written expectations additional to the scripture itself. And the seeming lack of compassion towards the lost that shows up and results in churches with no real growth.
I'm so glad that you are not as other men are - cold, proud, and lacking compassion...
Sudsy brought up some very good things to think about as he typically does- it would behoove us all to listen & consider rather than jump at that kind of personal attack. Part of what the Word of God teaches is for us to help each other see things in our lives as Christians that we need to consider- don't we want this? We can all have blindspots. Sudsy is one person who continually and consistently admits areas in his own walk he sees the need to improve if you read his posts regularly. So I think he sets a good example of one with humility but also wants to encourage us to apply passages taught by Jesus and the Apostles that we seem to possibly be guilty of not seeing In ourselves.
I wrestled with answering the poll questions because to me they were too simplistic to define accurately.
Pastor Begg has dealt with widespread attack for his counsel to that particular grandmother in that particular situation. His counsel shocked those who know him well. His closest friends, in fact the very pastor, John MacArthur who (besides God) probably had the most to do with Pastor Begg accepting the 2nd request for him to be Pastor at Parkside which brought him from Scotland 40 years ago.
I think Pastor Begg is right about the need to be careful about being Pharisees. I personally felt he wrongly applied it to those who disagreed with his counsel to the Grandmother. It is a "difference of opinion" on the best way for the Grandmother to be "Christ to this couple".
He did mention that there were pastors on his pastoral team that disagreed with him. It surprised his own daughter. And I'm sure many of his own congregation (including us). If we didn't "know" him and his very heart we would have been greatly concerned he was "compromising" and headed the wrong direction.
I disagree that if we took the other position rather than how he counseled her that we may be like the pharisees but- we always need to check our hearts in this area.
I have heard others by way of YouTube pick apart this sermon- and I tend to agree with them, more than our own Pastor Begg. The attacks on him about this could have taken him down- it would be sad if an error (as we see it) in counsel would destroy a gifted pastor. He is one of the most gifted and kindest pastors I've ever had the privilege of being taught under.
Should he be shunned over the opinion of misguided compassion? I think grace & mercy can be applied
My personal disappointment is he doesn't seem to consider it was wrong- but like Sudsy said it's because his focus, as always - is on reaching the lost and in this case- he felt that would be better accomplished by her attending.
Yes we can have a tendency to be the Pharisee instead of the publican- but I didn't appreciate the implications that we would be Pharisees by taking the other position and not attend and why we would not as also being "live" to the couple in sinful ceremony.
One thing a pastor's advice like this does, when perhaps a majority might disagree with him, is it shows just how those who disagree treat a brother-in-the-Lord over a perceived failing. Alistair is not promoting that every Christian should go to any same sex wedding and bring a gift and he said he might chose a different word of advice in a somewhat different situation.
I think Alistair is quite aware of James 3 text that says (AMP) - 'Not many [of you] should become teachers [serving in an official teaching capacity], my brothers and sisters, for you know that we [who are teachers] will be judged by a higher standard [because we have assumed greater accountability and more condemnation if we teach incorrectly]. For we all stumble and sin in many ways -----'. Alistair openly says he fails in many ways but in this one he didn't regard this as a mistake. God knows his intention and God will judge him on this advice.
I sometimes think of what some pastors today would say of Jesus involvement with sinners when He made 180 gallons of wine when the wine ran out at a wedding. And the wine He made was the good stuff. Some care to think this was not wine that could get one drunk if they drank too much. Personally, I doubt what they called the good stuff was just grape juice. Didn't Jesus realize that as this story is told in the future that some of His followers would see this as support for binge drinking. That does not appear to be Jesus concern for that moment but rather it was stated as this was one of the first signs of Him revealing His glory.
Jesus from the first of His ministry was challenged by those who religiously 'went by the book' , the Torah. He was constantly showing them a new way when He kept saying 'but I say unto you' and they did not like their religion being tampered with. Jesus didn't let religion get in His way of reaching out to the lost. This is something I need to keep in mind as the deceiver satan, I believe, will get me to regard separation from the world in a way that Jesus did not. As the Pharisees pointed their self righteous fingers at Him for being a 'friend of sinners', Jesus didn't let them get to Him. Actually He was quite stern with these 'holier-than-thou' types.
