Would you invest in US Treasuries? Why or why not?
Think savings bonds, treasury bills, etc.
It's a long story.... vote & discuss. If this drifts into politics (and we all know it will) please remain civil and polite. No foaming at the mouth and snapping at each other
1 x
I self-identify as a conspiracy theorist. My pronouns are told/you/so.
Whilst I hold a position that one should not charge usury or interest, as the scriptures clearly teach against that ...
... I don't really have a problem with someone being paid interest by the U.S. government, because all the money belongs to the U.S. government anyway. So go ahead and invest away in U.S. savings bonds, I-bonds, EE series bonds, Treasurys, FZFXX*, or what have you.
In fact, I'd say I'd be a lot more comfortable with you holding funds in such U.S. government bonds (or in an equivalent mutual fund, like Fidelity's FZFXX, than just having money parked in a typical bank at interest, where you have no idea to whom the money's being lent out and at what interest rates. Whereas lending money to the government and the government paying you interest back is about as close as you can get to not doing harm to the poor or levying usury against your neighbour.
* I would argue you shouldn't invest in SPAXX, since SPAXX has 10% or so invested in agency (GSE) securities, who profit from interest charged on things like home loans and student loans. Definitely not something the Christian should be mixed up with.
Josh wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 3:53 pm
FZFXX*, or what have you.
That's a new one for me. You make a lot of good points in Treasuries vs. bank CD's. We bank with a federal credit union and they call thier CD's "shares" or something like that.
0 x
I self-identify as a conspiracy theorist. My pronouns are told/you/so.
Josh wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 3:53 pm
FZFXX*, or what have you.
That's a new one for me. You make a lot of good points in Treasuries vs. bank CD's. We bank with a federal credit union and they call thier CD's "shares" or something like that.
In a credit union each dollar deposited represents a fractional "share" of ownership (or membership) in the credit union.
If you earn interest, the interest is likely coming from investments in GSE securities, interest charged to other members for loans the credit union keeps in house, and interest earned from investments in government bonds.
What I like about Fidelity's FZFXX and other funds is there is transparency about how exactly it is being invested. It also brings a much greater rate of return for interest on a checking account (with Fidelity you get approx. 4.9%).
With that said... I do my personal and business banking at Everence.
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:29 am
With that said... I do my personal and business banking at Everence.
Heard of them. I think there is one in Ephrata. Some coworkers talk about it from time to time.
They aren't anything extraordinarily special, but I like knowing that they won't make investments into defence contractors, weapons manufacturers, gambling enterprises, and so on.
Josh wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 3:53 pm
Whilst I hold a position that one should not charge usury or interest, as the scriptures clearly teach against that ...
... I don't really have a problem with someone being paid interest by the U.S. government, because all the money belongs to the U.S. government anyway. So go ahead and invest away in U.S. savings bonds, I-bonds, EE series bonds, Treasurys, FZFXX*, or what have you.
In fact, I'd say I'd be a lot more comfortable with you holding funds in such U.S. government bonds (or in an equivalent mutual fund, like Fidelity's FZFXX, than just having money parked in a typical bank at interest, where you have no idea to whom the money's being lent out and at what interest rates. Whereas lending money to the government and the government paying you interest back is about as close as you can get to not doing harm to the poor or levying usury against your neighbour.
* I would argue you shouldn't invest in SPAXX, since SPAXX has 10% or so invested in agency (GSE) securities, who profit from interest charged on things like home loans and student loans. Definitely not something the Christian should be mixed up with.
I concur with this, or at least close enough.
Usury, in my mind, is pretty much any "passive" income. Income you did not work for. Investing money in a company you don't provide labor for is then earning money off another man's labor without his uncoerced consent.
I would be comfortable owning stock in anything I play an active role in. My own company that I work for, I'd be fine owning shares in that. Bonds that increase in value based on the entire USA economy, I am fine with that because I am a contributing laborer in the larger US economy.
My biggest concern with government bonds is that they are often used to pay for wars and weapons. But at the same time, every dollar you hold is you loaning the U.S. government a dollar… so it’s hard to “opt out”, unless you decide to store very few of your treasures on earth in liquid cash.
Praxis+Theodicy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:10 pm
I concur with this, or at least close enough.
Usury, in my mind, is pretty much any "passive" income. Income you did not work for. Investing money in a company you don't provide labor for is then earning money off another man's labor without his uncoerced consent.
It's a bit late in the day to expound on this, but I look at it this way: if a man worked hard all his life to earn that money, and in retirement wants to keep some income rolling in, why is it so bad for him to loan that money out at a reasonable rate of interest?
I always took the term "usury" as bringing hardship upon people when they owe money. We shall pick up this discussion in the morning.
0 x
I self-identify as a conspiracy theorist. My pronouns are told/you/so.
Praxis+Theodicy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:10 pm
I concur with this, or at least close enough.
Usury, in my mind, is pretty much any "passive" income. Income you did not work for. Investing money in a company you don't provide labor for is then earning money off another man's labor without his uncoerced consent.
It's a bit late in the day to expound on this, but I look at it this way: if a man worked hard all his life to earn that money, and in retirement wants to keep some income rolling in, why is it so bad for him to loan that money out at a reasonable rate of interest?
I always took the term "usury" as bringing hardship upon people when they owe money. We shall pick up this discussion in the morning.
The fact someone retires or needs an income doesn’t justify doing unethical things to get that income.
The only question is if the way it is being earned is just. Generally speaking, the way that lenders and the capital class with money treat debtors and the working class is unjust, which scripture speaks directly to.
