The immorality of engagement rings

[ken_sylvania]

We chose to live ... in a state where nearly all of our electricity is produced by renewable carbon-free sources.

That's about to change though. By 2040 it's expected that nearly half of Oregon's energy will be produced from carbon-based sources (coal, natural gas, etc).

[Ken]

We chose to live ... in a state where nearly all of our electricity is produced by renewable carbon-free sources.

That's about to change though. By 2040 it's expected that nearly half of Oregon's energy will be produced from carbon-based sources (coal, natural gas, etc).

I don't live in Oregon. I live in Washington.

[ken_sylvania]

We chose to live ... in a state where nearly all of our electricity is produced by renewable carbon-free sources.

That's about to change though. By 2040 it's expected that nearly half of Oregon's energy will be produced from carbon-based sources (coal, natural gas, etc).

I don't live in Oregon. I live in Washington.

OK yea that would be a greater percentage. About 3/4 of Washington electricity production is from so-called renewables.

[Bootstrap]

I think the closest to a Scripture that directly addresses gold rings is in James 2:

My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

It suggests that there were people dressed like that in the church, and it does not call on the rich man to stop wearing his gold ring. It does, however, call on the church to avoid paying special attention to him.

Too many Christians worship wealth and power.

But I don't think there is a clear rule against jewelry in Scripture. I do think we should consider how expensive a ring is, whether it is ethically made, etc. FWIW, my wife does not have an engagement ring, we decided in favor of simplicity. She does wear a wedding ring.

[ken_sylvania]

I think the closest to a Scripture that directly addresses gold rings is in James 2:

My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

It suggests that there were people dressed like that in the church, and it does not call on the rich man to stop wearing his gold ring. It does, however, call on the church to avoid paying special attention to him.

Too many Christians worship wealth and power.

But I don't think there is a clear rule against jewelry in Scripture. I do think we should consider how expensive a ring is, whether it is ethically made, etc. FWIW, my wife does not have an engagement ring, we decided in favor of simplicity. She does wear a wedding ring.

I think it's hard to read those verses and think that either the poor man in vile clothes, or the rich man with the gold ring, are a part of the church.

It also mentions that the rich people are the ones dragging the believers to court and blaspheming the name of Jesus, but it doesn't say they should stop doing these things either.

[Bootstrap]

I think it's hard to read those verses and think that either the poor man in vile clothes, or the rich man with the gold ring, are a part of the church.

It also mentions that the rich people are the ones dragging the believers to court and blaspheming the name of Jesus, but it doesn't say they should stop doing these things either.

Hmmm, I think you are right. Hadn't thought about it that way.

Still, this whole thread feels like "majoring in minors" to me. Using some issue to render judgement against people who have different practices. Too much energy goes into that on MN. I'd prefer something more like "why we choose not to wear engagement rings".

[ken_sylvania]

I think it's hard to read those verses and think that either the poor man in vile clothes, or the rich man with the gold ring, are a part of the church.

It also mentions that the rich people are the ones dragging the believers to court and blaspheming the name of Jesus, but it doesn't say they should stop doing these things either.

Hmmm, I think you are right. Hadn't thought about it that way.

Still, this whole thread feels like "majoring in minors" to me. Using some issue to render judgement against people who have different practices. Too much energy goes into that on MN. I'd prefer something more like "why we choose not to wear engagement rings".

I don't look at whether a person wears rings as a determinative factor in whether I think they are following Jesus.

[Josh]

Which begs the question… if you think cars are so bad, why aren’t you adapting to living a lifestyle that doesn’t involve cars, petroleum etc? Obviously it is possible.

Just today I commuted 13 miles to work by bike. In the 35 degree February rain.

We chose to live in a relatively walkable urban area where nearly all our daily errands are nearby and within easy biking distance. And in a state where nearly all of our electricity is produced by renewable carbon-free sources.

Do we have a zero carbon footprint? No. Do we have a zero petroleum industry footprint? No. Not even the old order Amish can say that. But we are aware of our impacts and taking steps to reduce them.

Do you own a car?

[Ken]

Which begs the question… if you think cars are so bad, why aren’t you adapting to living a lifestyle that doesn’t involve cars, petroleum etc? Obviously it is possible.

Just today I commuted 13 miles to work by bike. In the 35 degree February rain.

We chose to live in a relatively walkable urban area where nearly all our daily errands are nearby and within easy biking distance. And in a state where nearly all of our electricity is produced by renewable carbon-free sources.

Do we have a zero carbon footprint? No. Do we have a zero petroleum industry footprint? No. Not even the old order Amish can say that. But we are aware of our impacts and taking steps to reduce them.

Do you own a car?

I have a Prius I share with my wife that we fill about once every 6 weeks. It takes about 8 gallons. It will be the last gas car we will ever own. When it finally needs replacing I'll find an electric.

[Josh]

Just today I commuted 13 miles to work by bike. In the 35 degree February rain.

We chose to live in a relatively walkable urban area where nearly all our daily errands are nearby and within easy biking distance. And in a state where nearly all of our electricity is produced by renewable carbon-free sources.

Do we have a zero carbon footprint? No. Do we have a zero petroleum industry footprint? No. Not even the old order Amish can say that. But we are aware of our impacts and taking steps to reduce them.

Do you own a car?

I have a Prius I share with my wife that we fill about once every 6 weeks. It takes about 8 gallons. It will be the last gas car we will ever own. When it finally needs replacing I'll find an electric.

So, the Amish don’t own cars or structure life around assuming they can drive everywhere or rely on them. This leads to fundamentally different patterns of life, which end up being organised around walking or horse and buggy speeds (which don’t go very fast).

When they need to go a far distance or go quickly, they use public transportation, whether a driver, or Greyhound bus, or hiring an entire bus, or Amtrak.

If people who rail against the evils of cars and suburban development were willing to live like the Amish. Then things would actually be different. But it’s apparent people who complain about cars and suburban development aren’t actually willing to do anything about it.