The immorality of engagement rings

[Ken]

Harrisburg is western fellowship. They are perfectly willing to install ties for horses if anyone wanted to. Most of them are within buggy distance.

Yes but they don't ride buggies, do they? Or walk/bike to church or anywhere else.

With the number of people killed on Peoria I don’t blame them.
Although I do know someone that consistently drives 45 to church on the 55. I really hated getting stuck behind him even though I liked him. He’s one of those who converted from Catholicism, he’s a very smart guy and probably one of the fittest people in that church for his age. He’s in his 80s now and he can out walk us. At least he could when we left.
I’d be willing to bet you and I know a lot of the same people.
Actually there was at least one family that walked to church sometimes two.

Possibly. My parents can certainly play the Mennonite game anywhere in Oregon. But I haven't lived in that region since I left home in the early 1980s. I think that is actually the church where my grandfather spent his final years after my grandmother died. And after he left the more mainstream Mennonite church out of opposition to all the "liberalism" at the time (late 1970s). I would have to ask my dad to be sure.

Look, my only point is that it is really easy to be judgmental of others without putting a critical eye on one's self. I'm as guilty of that as anyone. So when I read things like:

But with the engagement ring, specifically, it is a wicked and evil practice. It is a "tradition" less than 100 years old. It is a tradition rooted in the evils of apartheid, slavery, and war. It is something a Christian should want to run from, as quickly as their feet can carry them.

I ask Really? Aren't we going a little over the top here? One should certainly be informed about the diamond mining industry which is certainly unsavory at best. But simply giving and wearing an engagement ring is a "wicket and evil practice?" Do we have that same level of moral outrage for all the other unsavory industries that we come into contact with on a daily basis? "And the answer is obviously not. We compromise quickly when any actual inconvenience is involved. That was my principal point. As a middle aged guy who's been married for 25 years I certainly don't give much care or thought to engagement rings. I didn't give my wife one but she has various rings that she has collected and wears. None of them expensive.
But I do have 3 daughters and I suspect their priorities are different from mine in this area and others. I'd advice them not to blow money on diamonds. But I doubt any of them would anyway and they are probably as attuned to the sins of the diamond industry as anyone. But that isn't going to stop them from exchanging other kinds of rings or wearing them.

[ohio jones]

Again, your knowledge of Anabaptists is so small. Please don't judge all of them by your limited experiences.

This is the closest plain Anabaptist church to where I grew up.

Not quite sure how the subject got engaged with church buildings ringed with asphalt, but anyway.

[Josh]

Very few Amish have church buildings, so I can excuse Ken probably not being aware if he drove (or walked, or biked, or rode mass transit) past an Amish church service. However, I've been past my share of Mennonite church buildings that looked like this:



There is no religious group in America that is more committed to not using cars (and not surrounding their church gathering places with asphalt) than Mennonites and Amish.

[Ken]

Very few Amish have church buildings, so I can excuse Ken probably not being aware if he drove (or walked, or biked, or rode mass transit) past an Amish church service. However, I've been past my share of Mennonite church buildings that looked like this:

There is no religious group in America that is more committed to not using cars (and not surrounding their church gathering places with asphalt) than Mennonites and Amish.

Don't link Mennonites and Amish together in this one. Your photo is of Old Order Stauffer horse and buggy Mennonites.

The more typical conservative Mennonite church parking lot looks more like this:

[RZehr]

Very few Amish have church buildings, so I can excuse Ken probably not being aware if he drove (or walked, or biked, or rode mass transit) past an Amish church service. However, I've been past my share of Mennonite church buildings that looked like this:

There is no religious group in America that is more committed to not using cars (and not surrounding their church gathering places with asphalt) than Mennonites and Amish.

Don't link Mennonites and Amish together in this one. Many conservative Mennonite church parking lot looks more like this:

Hey that grass is sequestering carbon and offsetting emissions.

[Josh]

The only significant group of people eschewing cars in America are plain Anabaptists, Ken, so it seems odd you have such a quarrel with them.

[Ken]

The only significant group of people eschewing cars in America are plain Anabaptists, Ken, so it seems odd you have such a quarrel with them.

"Plain Anabaptists" is a made-up category. There is no specific group called "plain Anabaptists"

There are dozens upon dozens of different Anabaptist groups, each with dramatically different lifestyles and customs.

And I have absolutely no issue or quarrel with any of them. I'm simply pointing out YOUR tendency to be very selective about where you target your moral outrage. As in this thread where you blanket label all engagement rings as wicked and evil.

[Ernie]

"Plain Anabaptists" is a made-up category. There is no specific group called "plain Anabaptists"

There is also no specific group called "conservative Anabaptists" or "conservative Mennonites". Those are made up as well.

There are dozens upon dozens of different Anabaptist groups, each with dramatically different lifestyles and customs.

Exactly.

The more typical conservative Mennonite church parking lot looks more like this:

And yet you pick a couple pictures of one small subset of ultra-conservatives or car-driving Old Order Mennonites, and call it typical.

[Josh]

The only significant group of people eschewing cars in America are plain Anabaptists, Ken, so it seems odd you have such a quarrel with them.

"Plain Anabaptists" is a made-up category. There is no specific group called "plain Anabaptists"

There are dozens upon dozens of different Anabaptist groups, each with dramatically different lifestyles and customs.

And I have absolutely no issue or quarrel with any of them. I'm simply pointing out YOUR tendency to be very selective about where you target your moral outrage. As in this thread where you blanket label all engagement rings as wicked and evil.

“Plain Anabaptist” is a term recognised by sociologists to refer to a particular ethno-religious grouping of people.

It so happens that the majority of them live without cars or line electricity.

Which begs the question… if you think cars are so bad, why aren’t you adapting to living a lifestyle that doesn’t involve cars, petroleum etc? Obviously it is possible.

[Ken]

Which begs the question… if you think cars are so bad, why aren’t you adapting to living a lifestyle that doesn’t involve cars, petroleum etc? Obviously it is possible.

Just today I commuted 13 miles to work by bike. In the 35 degree February rain.

We chose to live in a relatively walkable urban area where nearly all our daily errands are nearby and within easy biking distance. And in a state where nearly all of our electricity is produced by renewable carbon-free sources.

Do we have a zero carbon footprint? No. Do we have a zero petroleum industry footprint? No. Not even the old order Amish can say that. But we are aware of our impacts and taking steps to reduce them.