Would a moderate conservate Mennonite chuch (Like Beachy Amish) allow the prodigal son to be a member?

[mrbilliam]

It is not surprising people who lived in Roman provinces adopted Roman pagan customs.

Well... it's a deep well if you want to go down there, especially when our churches have Christmas programs and Sunday "Easter". But that's another thread.

My church doesn’t have special Easter or Christmas services, but what is wrong with remembering Jesus’ death and resurrection and celebrating Jesus’ birth?

Nothing. But this is a different thread. Christmas is 100% from pagan origins. I didn't say services, I said programs. Singing carols in place of Saturnalia. This was a pagan adoption of the church, as was the word from Eostre (Easter).

What I'm saying is adopted pagan customs are all over the place. Including how you sit in the church you are in (Roman), rather than center pulpits surrounded by benches (Jews). Let's pull this to another thread if you want.

[Josh]

The prodigal son wasn’t given a wedding ring.

[mrbilliam]

The prodigal son wasn’t given a wedding ring.

Good so could he with the ring given to him by the Father be a member in your church and keep it right where the Father placed it?

[Verity]

I have not encountered this idea, either. Growing up (non-plain) we had many forms of plain people around us and I never heard anyone in the community surmise that the plain people were not married due to the lack of wedding bands. I could imagine the scenario where a new outreach was started and locals were surprised that these conservative people did not wear wedding rings. But once people learn to know them and their practice it should not be an issue. Unless, of course, they wore fancy watches or other inconsistencies that would fuel the confusion.

While "costly array" is indeed part of the Scriptures on modest attire, is not adornment equally important? As a whole, we avoid unnecessary extras. The most popular "jewelry" of my youth were simple hemp bracelets. Earrings (or nose rings for that matter) could be inexpensive, but we would not look with favor on them. Whatever extras we put on do shape our identity. My extended family members faithfully wear their wedding rings. They have commented various times that my marriage does not require a piece of metal to prove fidelity. Our life should be above reproach.

"Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing." 1 Peter 3:16-17

Again, Jesus found it appropriate in his parable that the Father put a ring on the prodigal son's finger.

Mennonites are very much not in large cities, but rural and they become more known to the communities. In large cities where there are thousands of stores, garages, gas stations, etc., barely anybody knows the culture or customs of Mennonites. Men and women alike are not known to be married or not. The women probably mostly would not be approached because they would look "weird". Men may be. But the couple together with children very well could be judged as not married.

What else could be "the appearance of evil"? Us Mennonites would say "well if a single brother went inside a single lady's home frequently to repair something".... But the reality is how the world perceives the Christian. Is it so wrong to have a $10 little band of metal on a finger to tell others of your lifelong commitment. To symbolize marriage as the appropriate method of which God made for the family?

Thank you, MrBilliam, for giving me a delightful noontime laugh! Your reference to "street smarts" is highly amusing. I fear you do such people an injustice by the assumption that they will be confused and thrown off by lack of a wedding band. After living in large cities and rural areas, I beg to differ. In the rural areas, conceptions tend to be concrete. A pink haired tattooed individual walking into the store makes everyone go silent. Whereas in the city, there is already such diversity that people do not bat an eye at someone who is unusual. If a street smart person questions an Anabaptist man's fidelity, I suggest it is because of the "scent" that man gives off, not because he is not wearing a ring. My street smart friends are nearly infallible when it comes to reading character. That type of Anabaptist man putting on a ring will not change his "scent" at all.

What else could be appearance of evil? When I first joined the Mennonites, my military family was highly offended that I would not salute the flag at family gatherings and events. It was considered highly disrespectful. But, after only a time or two, they accepted it. Why? Because my demeanor clearly showed respect even though I did not participate in the act of pledging allegiance.

[mrbilliam]

When we repent out of our filth and come to the Lord in conversion, we are then part of the bride of Christ.

When the prodigal son repented and came to the Lord, he was also given a ring, and was part of the bride of Christ.

Do we so much want to avoid this? A $10 ring would allow the world to understand that you are in a solid marriage with the person you are living your life with.

[mrbilliam]

I have not encountered this idea, either. Growing up (non-plain) we had many forms of plain people around us and I never heard anyone in the community surmise that the plain people were not married due to the lack of wedding bands. I could imagine the scenario where a new outreach was started and locals were surprised that these conservative people did not wear wedding rings. But once people learn to know them and their practice it should not be an issue. Unless, of course, they wore fancy watches or other inconsistencies that would fuel the confusion.

While "costly array" is indeed part of the Scriptures on modest attire, is not adornment equally important? As a whole, we avoid unnecessary extras. The most popular "jewelry" of my youth were simple hemp bracelets. Earrings (or nose rings for that matter) could be inexpensive, but we would not look with favor on them. Whatever extras we put on do shape our identity. My extended family members faithfully wear their wedding rings. They have commented various times that my marriage does not require a piece of metal to prove fidelity. Our life should be above reproach.

"Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing." 1 Peter 3:16-17

Again, Jesus found it appropriate in his parable that the Father put a ring on the prodigal son's finger.

Mennonites are very much not in large cities, but rural and they become more known to the communities. In large cities where there are thousands of stores, garages, gas stations, etc., barely anybody knows the culture or customs of Mennonites. Men and women alike are not known to be married or not. The women probably mostly would not be approached because they would look "weird". Men may be. But the couple together with children very well could be judged as not married.

What else could be "the appearance of evil"? Us Mennonites would say "well if a single brother went inside a single lady's home frequently to repair something".... But the reality is how the world perceives the Christian. Is it so wrong to have a $10 little band of metal on a finger to tell others of your lifelong commitment. To symbolize marriage as the appropriate method of which God made for the family?

Thank you, MrBilliam, for giving me a delightful noontime laugh! Your reference to "street smarts" is highly amusing. I fear you do such people an injustice by the assumption that they will be confused and thrown off by lack of a wedding band. After living in large cities and rural areas, I beg to differ. In the rural areas, conceptions tend to be concrete. A pink haired tattooed individual walking into the store makes everyone go silent. Whereas in the city, there is already such diversity that people do not bat an eye at someone who is unusual. If a street smart person questions an Anabaptist man's fidelity, I suggest it is because of the "scent" that man gives off, not because he is not wearing a ring. My street smart friends are nearly infallible when it comes to reading character. That type of Anabaptist man putting on a ring will not change his "scent" at all.

What else could be appearance of evil? When I first joined the Mennonites, my military family was highly offended that I would not salute the flag at family gatherings and events. It was considered highly disrespectful. But, after only a time or two, they accepted it. Why? Because my demeanor clearly showed respect even though I did not participate in the act of pledging allegiance.

I'm sorry you found it funny. But there are real issues here that you are unfamiliar with. Since you are NMB, you know good and well the world recognizes marriages mostly by rings (in the USA).

Mocking doesn't get much in point my friend.

[Soloist]

I understand this. Totally.

Thing I believe we are missing is when an outsider is unfamiliar with the Mennonite culture. They see a man, woman, and a child in a store. Do they "know" you are married? That's a huge assumption.

Most people don’t think. If they even deign to speak to you, they don’t look for a wedding ring to decide if you are married or not.
The time the wedding ring is looked for is in bars, and single people generally. I used to have a wedding ring, for considerable time I would take it off at work as I did surgery, never did anyone suggest I wasn’t married or make assumptions that went anywhere. When I was with my wife, again no one made any assumptions.
After removing our rings, my wife was concerned about it at first, but no one made the mistake and I spoke of my family as the most important thing to me.

It does matter, as I've personally been asked how many children I have and was responded with "all from the same woman??". Just with a humble "yes, with my wife".

I’ve never encountered anyone rude enough to ask me if they are all from the same woman. Assuming I did, why is the simple correction of their misperception wrong? Why do we need a tiny symbol to tell someone else what we openly show with our love?

People don't know Soloist. We assume they know.

People make assumptions all the time. I really don’t care because if anyone acts accordingly, they would very quickly realize they were wrong. Besides, no one is going to look at my wife and I and think we aren’t married.

The question still stands that Jesus found it completely appropriate for the prodigal son to have a ring. WE can't dismantle that just to be right.

Did Jesus in the example put a wedding ring on the son? Or a signet ring? Did the man with the gold ring have a wedding ring or a signet ring?
Are you sure you aren’t twisting a parable to mean something Jesus never intended to be taken? I’ve pointed out examples of this. Do you have a response? Or is it okay for a Christian to lead armies?

[Verity]

Again, Jesus found it appropriate in his parable that the Father put a ring on the prodigal son's finger.

Mennonites are very much not in large cities, but rural and they become more known to the communities. In large cities where there are thousands of stores, garages, gas stations, etc., barely anybody knows the culture or customs of Mennonites. Men and women alike are not known to be married or not. The women probably mostly would not be approached because they would look "weird". Men may be. But the couple together with children very well could be judged as not married.

What else could be "the appearance of evil"? Us Mennonites would say "well if a single brother went inside a single lady's home frequently to repair something".... But the reality is how the world perceives the Christian. Is it so wrong to have a $10 little band of metal on a finger to tell others of your lifelong commitment. To symbolize marriage as the appropriate method of which God made for the family?

Thank you, MrBilliam, for giving me a delightful noontime laugh! Your reference to "street smarts" is highly amusing. I fear you do such people an injustice by the assumption that they will be confused and thrown off by lack of a wedding band. After living in large cities and rural areas, I beg to differ. In the rural areas, conceptions tend to be concrete. A pink haired tattooed individual walking into the store makes everyone go silent. Whereas in the city, there is already such diversity that people do not bat an eye at someone who is unusual. If a street smart person questions an Anabaptist man's fidelity, I suggest it is because of the "scent" that man gives off, not because he is not wearing a ring. My street smart friends are nearly infallible when it comes to reading character. That type of Anabaptist man putting on a ring will not change his "scent" at all.

What else could be appearance of evil? When I first joined the Mennonites, my military family was highly offended that I would not salute the flag at family gatherings and events. It was considered highly disrespectful. But, after only a time or two, they accepted it. Why? Because my demeanor clearly showed respect even though I did not participate in the act of pledging allegiance.

I'm sorry you found it funny. But there are real issues here that you are unfamiliar with. Since you are NMB, you know good and well the world recognizes marriages mostly by rings (in the USA).

Mocking doesn't get much in point my friend.

I am sincerely sorry, sir. Mocking was not my intent at all. Had we been speaking face to face I trust you would have known that.

Having lived in multiple states across the US in my life, I do not agree that the world recognizes marriages "mostly by rings". That is simply not my experience. I did not grow up Mennonite. My extended family is not plain at all. I have very good friends who are not remotely Christian or conservative. I do acknowledge that your experience and circumstances differ from my own.

My congregation is not moderate. It is an ultra conservative. Should the prodigal son come and apply for membership, with clear evidence that God Himself placed a ring on his finger, I do not doubt that he would be accepted. We have never encountered this exact scenario as a congregation, but there have been other unique requests that were accepted out of respect for the individual.

[Josh]

The prodigal son wasn’t given a wedding ring.

Good so could he with the ring given to him by the Father be a member in your church and keep it right where the Father placed it?

If we needed to sign documents with signet rings, I don’t think our church would have a problem with it.

[RZehr]

When we repent out of our filth and come to the Lord in conversion, we are then part of the bride of Christ.

When the prodigal son repented and came to the Lord, he was also given a ring, and was part of the bride of Christ.

Do we so much want to avoid this? A $10 ring would allow the world to understand that you are in a solid marriage with the person you are living your life with.

The analogy that you should be making with this parable, is that we should wear a ring to show our repentance; Not a wedding ring.
It is quite the leap to say that because the prodigal son was given a ring by his father, that means the it is necessary for a bride and grooms to exchange rings at their wedding. It is an especially egregious analogy if you then turn around a prohibit the wearing of all other rings that have significance, such as engagement rings, class rings, Super Bowl rings. Would you agree that it is logically fine to expand the wearing of rings to signify other parts of life? Or are you saying that wedding rings are the only ones with important enough significance? What about engagement rings?

THE MEANING OF EACH FINGER
Throughout history, it is believed that finger choices for rings have a spiritual or mystical meaning. In palmistry, the hands and fingers are associated with the attributes of Greek gods, and it is thought that wearing specific gemstones on a certain finger can bring good luck. The symbolism and meaning of each finger for wearing rings may influence how you choose to wear them.

The ring finger
The ring finger symbolises eternal love, creativity and beauty. It is thought to be associated with the Greek god, Apollo, while complimentary gemstones for this finger include jade, amethyst, moonstone, sapphire and turquoise.

The middle finger
The middle finger is thought to represent responsibility, balance and soul-searching while its associated gemstones are coral, aquamarine and rose quartz which are all meant to have soothing properties.

The index finger
The index finger is ruled by Jupiter - symbolising ambition, leadership and self-confidence. Wearing a ring with blue topaz, amethyst or lapis lazuli on this finger is thought to promote Jupiter’s characteristics.

The pinky finger
The pinky finger is ruled by Mercury which symbolises intuition, intelligence and persuasion. Choosing a stone such as amber, citrine or moonstone for your pinky finger is said to enable the power of Mercury.

The thumb
The thumb is the only finger that isn’t associated with a Greek god. It is believed to symbolise willpower and self-assertion.

RING MEANINGS BY FINGER
From marriage to the Mafia, there are many reasons for wearing rings on different fingers. Here we discuss the ring meanings by finger.

Left pinky finger - Marital status and the Mafia
It was popular in the 19th and early 20th centuries for men to wear two rings on their pinky finger to show they were married. One would be a wedding ring and the other a signet ring. Wearing rings on the left or right pinky could also be associated with the Mafia.

Left ring finger - Marriage or engagement
The left ring finger is the engagement ring finger in the UK. In most western countries this finger is reserved for wedding rings and engagement rings. It can also be used as the promise ring finger, but this depends on personal preference.

Left middle finger - No statement
Wearing a ring on the left middle finger has no particular meaning. If you have a great statement ring, you may wish to wear it on this finger.

Left index finger - Royalty or fashion
A ring worn on either index finger used to be reserved for royalty. Visitors would kneel before the King or Queen and kiss the ring on their index finger as a sign of respect. These days, it is a great place to stack fashion rings.

Left thumb - A sign of wealth
A thumb ring on either hand used to be reserved only for the high class. It was seen as a status symbol and represented wealth due to the fact it costs more to create a thumb ring because of the number of materials used.

Right thumb - A sign of wealth
In the same way as the left thumb, a ring worn on the right thumb used to symbolise wealth. However, these days wearing a ring on the thumb is seen more as a fashion statement.

Right index finger - Marriage in some cultures
The right index finger is reserved for wedding rings in some cultures, for example, this is the accepted place to put your wedding ring in traditional Jewish ceremonies. After the ceremony brides have the option to move their ring to the ring finger on their left hand.

Right middle finger - Open to interpretation
Wearing a ring on either middle finger doesn’t hold much meaning. Therefore, it is a great place to style your fashion or diamond rings as you please.

Right ring finger - Marriage or engagement in some cultures
Just like some cultures wear their wedding or engagement rings on their left ring finger, there are also several countries where you would wear them on your right ring finger. For example, in countries such as India, Germany and Russia, you would wear your ring on your right ring finger.

Right pinky finger - Professional status
Wearing rings on the right pinky finger has the same meaning as wearing them on the left. Sometimes wearing a ring on the right, however, symbolises professional status. A ring on the pinky can be a symbol of graduating with a degree in a specific field, usually in engineering or ecology.

RING FINGER MEANINGS FOR MEN

There are specific ring meanings for men and wearing rings on fingers other than the ring finger holds symbolic significance. In this section, we discuss the ring finger for men and the meaning of wearing a ring on a specific finger.

Ring finger - Marital status
The ring finger for men can be either hand depending on culture and religion. For example, in western cultures, the ring finger for men is on the left. Men’s wedding rings will often be worn on the left hand on the ring finger in the UK - however, in countries such as Russia, Germany and India, the wedding ring is worn on the right.

Middle finger - Balance
It is uncommon for men to wear a ring on the middle finger, however, in the west, it has become a fashion statement. Wearing a ring on the longest finger is said to symbolize balance.

Index finger - Social status
Wearing a ring on the index finger used to be viewed as a way to express social status. It was reserved for the upper class and men would often wear a family crest or signet ring on this finger.

Thumb - Power and influence
Men wearing a ring on their thumb has long been viewed as a symbol of power or influence. It has also been associated with high-class society and royalty. Today, however, some men choose to wear a thumb ring as a fashion statement.

The finger you choose to wear your rings on really depends on your taste and preference. Some people even choose to wear their engagement ring and wedding rings on a different finger to what tradition dictates.

Here in America, people tend to wear a wedding ring on the fourth finger of the left hand. But even that isn't settled. People from Germany, Spain, Norway, Russia and India wear it on the right. I don't think there is an epidemic of misunderstanding in America due to the fact that these people may arrive in America wearing the ring on the right.

And culturally speaking, there is no taboo whatsoever against single people wearing rings on their ring finger.