Surnames and Sectarianism

[Praxis+Theodicy]

Church Index is rather opaque about what it is; it uses the brand of “We are just Christians who obey the Bible.” The issue is that virtually every church claims the same thing. If I were looking for a Mennonite/Brethren church I would have a hard time knowing if I’d come to the right place.

This is from ChurchIndex.org - I think you are misrepresenting it.

Criteria for Inclusion
We restrict this list to include only churches that, to the best of our knowledge, are teaching and expecting the following:

[*]A high view of scripture. The scriptures are given by inspiration of God to teach us about God, show us His plan for the world, and help us know how Jesus wants us to live.
[*]Historical orthodoxy as taught in the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed.
[*]The doctrine of the two kingdoms. This doctrine teaches that there are two kingdoms—the kingdom of God and the kingdoms of this world—and that they cannot mix. When we become Christians, we transfer our allegiance from all earthly kingdoms to the kingdom of God. This means we do not participate in earthly politics, office holding, or voting.
[*]Separation from the world (not being drawn into the mindsets, values, and entertainment of the broader culture, but living here as strangers and pilgrims).
[*]Nonresistance. This means we do not go to war or work for war-related industries. It also means we do not hate our enemies or forcibly resist evil in self-defense. Rather, we return good for evil to all people.
[*]Mutual aid within our churches, and sharing with others in need. We believe it is important that our hearts are free from the love of money.
[*]Wearing modest and simple clothes, instead of clothes that are revealing, expensive, or fashionable. Our churches also teach against the wearing of jewelry.
[*]Women covering their heads, and men not covering their heads, as taught in I Corinthians 11.
[*]Not swearing oaths, but always telling the truth.
[*]Marrying for life. Our churches do not allow remarriage after divorce while the previous partner is still living.
[*]Believers’ baptism. Those who are baptized must be old enough to understand sin, must repent of their sins, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and walk in newness of life.
[*]Church discipline, including excommunication of unrepentant members who violate the teachings of Scripture.
[*]Commitment to a local church and submitting to the church and its leaders.

Recognizing that we, as individual Christ-centered, Bible-based churches, are a part of the collective worldwide body of Christ, our index does not include any churches or groups that claim to be the true church at the exclusion of all others.

As this project progresses, we may edit these criteria for further clarity or add criteria that were unintentionally omitted.

[Soloist]

We never would have gone to Payette church. Payette Mennonite church on the other hand, we would have tried.

How many years ago was that? Might it be different today with all the online resources?
Will Church Index be a resource for folks like yourself? Or must the website have the name Mennonite in it?

If the latter, which of the following do you think is the better domain?
amishmennonite.org
amish-mennonite.org

Well, this was the sort of search we tried
https://rb.gy/y5mfne
or https://rb.gy/1gxp7h
or
https://rb.gy/rs0o4f

Somehow we stumbled on Cory's website and I don't quite remember how but he told us that nothing was within our range (we put 50 minutes I think) and we lived in Stayton Oregon at the time. He did mention an Apostolic church which we went to, I walked in and walked out after seeing men kissing (completely ignorant that anyone actually did that)
As you can see though, we were using regional searches for information an not just generic "Amish churches" or Mennonite churches" We had no idea of the diversity of Mennonites and didn't even know how to search.
I actually gave up using the internet and went to a farmers market to find crazy people.
I vaguely think we stumbled on to some historical information about sleeping preachers and got really confused.
When we did eventually find where to search (thanks to a lady selling bread) we found RZehr's church and Brownsville Mennonite.
We didn't use facebook anymore and Brownsville had a Facebook but no website. RZehr's church did have a website. I strongly suspect we would have wrote off Mennonites if we saw a picture of them, but I don't know for sure... The primary reason we drove away at RZehr's was because we arrived early and only saw old people and thought it was a cult.
Brownsville was a desperation try really... Worked as a starting point, but eventually wasn't what we needed and wanted.

Of course I now know how to search for it, but I didn't then.

The other thing was... we were using google maps to find churches, not just browsing the web.

This was 2014 btw.

[RZehr]

The old people who didn’t have children to get ready for church, always show up to church early just like you.
You could have waited a bit and you’d have seen all the children.

[Soloist]

The old people who didn’t have children to get ready for church, always show up to church early just like you.
You could have waited a bit and you’d have seen all the children.

Yeah well we didn’t know that everyone with children were chronically late at that time

[Soloist]

The old people who didn’t have children to get ready for church, always show up to church early just like you.
You could have waited a bit and you’d have seen all the children.

Yeah well we didn’t know that everyone with children were chronically late at that time

Wife: I just saw old lady after old lady in the same exact outfit and was getting more and more terrified and told my husband that if we left right then we might have a chance to go check out Brownsville. By the time we got there, all the young people were struggling in late and they had at least some variety of apparel which made me feel less like an obvious sore thumb.

[RZehr]

The old people who didn’t have children to get ready for church, always show up to church early just like you.
You could have waited a bit and you’d have seen all the children.

Yeah well we didn’t know that everyone with children were chronically late at that time

Wife: I just saw old lady after old lady in the same exact outfit and was getting more and more terrified and told my husband that if we left right then we might have a chance to go check out Brownsville. By the time we got there, all the young people were struggling in late and they had at least some variety of apparel which made me feel less like an obvious sore thumb.

Seems to have worked out for the best. This way we didn’t have to go to church together.

[Soloist]

Seems to have worked out for the best. This way we didn’t have to go to church together.

Yeah I have to admit you’re such a weird person. Had you’ve been our first experience I think we would’ve ran in terror! Conrad was such a better experience than you

[Josh]

Church Index is rather opaque about what it is; it uses the brand of “We are just Christians who obey the Bible.” The issue is that virtually every church claims the same thing. If I were looking for a Mennonite/Brethren church I would have a hard time knowing if I’d come to the right place.

All you need to do is click on the Learn More tab and you get this.

Our mission is to create and maintain a public database of Anabaptist and similar churches from around the world who strive to live out the teachings of the New Testament and who recognize other churches with similar faith and practice, as being part of the church of Jesus.

Mennonite Church USA would claim they are doing the same thing, though.

[Josh]

Church Index is rather opaque about what it is; it uses the brand of “We are just Christians who obey the Bible.” The issue is that virtually every church claims the same thing. If I were looking for a Mennonite/Brethren church I would have a hard time knowing if I’d come to the right place.

This is from ChurchIndex.org - I think you are misrepresenting it.

Criteria for Inclusion
We restrict this list to include only churches that, to the best of our knowledge, are teaching and expecting the following:

[*]A high view of scripture. The scriptures are given by inspiration of God to teach us about God, show us His plan for the world, and help us know how Jesus wants us to live.
[*]Historical orthodoxy as taught in the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed.
[*]The doctrine of the two kingdoms. This doctrine teaches that there are two kingdoms—the kingdom of God and the kingdoms of this world—and that they cannot mix. When we become Christians, we transfer our allegiance from all earthly kingdoms to the kingdom of God. This means we do not participate in earthly politics, office holding, or voting.
[*]Separation from the world (not being drawn into the mindsets, values, and entertainment of the broader culture, but living here as strangers and pilgrims).
[*]Nonresistance. This means we do not go to war or work for war-related industries. It also means we do not hate our enemies or forcibly resist evil in self-defense. Rather, we return good for evil to all people.
[*]Mutual aid within our churches, and sharing with others in need. We believe it is important that our hearts are free from the love of money.
[*]Wearing modest and simple clothes, instead of clothes that are revealing, expensive, or fashionable. Our churches also teach against the wearing of jewelry.
[*]Women covering their heads, and men not covering their heads, as taught in I Corinthians 11.
[*]Not swearing oaths, but always telling the truth.
[*]Marrying for life. Our churches do not allow remarriage after divorce while the previous partner is still living.
[*]Believers’ baptism. Those who are baptized must be old enough to understand sin, must repent of their sins, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and walk in newness of life.
[*]Church discipline, including excommunication of unrepentant members who violate the teachings of Scripture.
[*]Commitment to a local church and submitting to the church and its leaders.

Recognizing that we, as individual Christ-centered, Bible-based churches, are a part of the collective worldwide body of Christ, our index does not include any churches or groups that claim to be the true church at the exclusion of all others.

As this project progresses, we may edit these criteria for further clarity or add criteria that were unintentionally omitted.

This list is so narrow to a particular type of Anabaptist church (basically, conservative Anabaptists except not Old Orders and also not Holdemans nor Apostolics) that it is hard to imagine anyone who would be looking for that exact list who isn't already a conservative Anabaptist.

It would seem to me to be better to describe it as "conservative Mennonite or of similar faith and practice." Yes, I realise there are some Charity, etc. who are allergic to the "Mennonite" label.

[Ken]

With the invention of the internet, it is very easy to identify as Anabaptist or Mennonite or Brethren and what that means to the church, without including it in the name of the church. Those who really care about the identity will read the website. Those unfamiliar with Christianity won't really care what name, and they will care more about the people at the church and how the people at the church treat them.

Sometimes it isn't so easy as you think.

Here is a CMC Church in Sarasota Florida called "Abundant Life Church". Can you find anything on their web site anywhere indicating they have an Anabaptist affiliation or are even part of CMC? https://www.alcsrq.com/ Or even the slightest bit of Anabaptist teachings within their statement of beliefs? Yet if you look at the directory of CMC churches on the Rosedale web site you will find them listed. https://rosedalenetwork.org/congregational-directory/

This is the web site of the Baptist megachurch that was a few blocks away from our house in Waco. It is the typical big Southern Baptist megachurch with a full size gym, move theater, etc. and about a 2 dozen different ministers and assorted staff": https://www.firstwoodway.org/ but has renamed itself "First Woodway" instead of the old name "First Woodway Baptist Church" Other than the word "Baptist" that still appears in their logo in tiny print on the top left of the page, is there anything at all on the web site that would tell you they are Southern Baptist or what it means? Any list of Southern Baptist beliefs including, for example, the role of women?